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Raze officially revealed!

Postby Rachael » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:01 pm

Image

It's Duke Nukem 3D's 24th anniversary, so...



(Full disclosure: Most credit goes to Graf for this)
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Re: The WIP Thread

Postby Sgt. Shivers » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:27 pm

Rachael wrote:It's Duke Nukem's 24th anniversary, so...

https://youtu.be/GT4mZUwuoXQ

(Full disclosure: Most credit goes to Graf for this)


Woah! This looks awesome, I can see it opening up a lot of modding possibilities!
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Re: The WIP Thread

Postby Jeimuzu73 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:39 pm

Rachael wrote:It's Duke Nukem's 24th anniversary, so...

https://youtu.be/GT4mZUwuoXQ

(Full disclosure: Most credit goes to Graf for this)

ZBuild? Impressive. Does it use the same DECORATE format of coding as ZDoom or its own?
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Re: The WIP Thread

Postby Rachael » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:22 pm

Right now the focus is more on usability (and actually being able to PLAY the games without frustration) than mods. That being said, it borrows features from several parent ports so it will inherit the capabilities of said ports. More details than that, though, I will let Graf explain. :)
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Re: The WIP Thread

Postby Pompous Seed » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:10 pm

Rachael wrote:It's Duke Nukem's 24th anniversary, so...

https://youtu.be/GT4mZUwuoXQ

DUDE YEEEEEES.
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Re: The WIP Thread

Postby Captain J » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:55 pm

HOLY CRUD now i can play redneck rampage soon?? :D
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Redneckerz » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:09 am

Some additional information scavenged from the Discord for those who are not on it:
  • This is a seperate project from mainline GZDoom.
  • The port uses code from various source ports: Primarly EDuke32, GZDoom (For UI/Input) and NBlood/RedNukem/VoidSW/PCExhumed.
  • It uses ZMusic as its music system, which is from GZDoom. A standalone library of this can be found here.
  • The port has a name, but this is under Graf's discretion for now and it will soon be revealed.. Graf is also primarily in charge of this port
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:20 am

Redneckerz wrote:It uses ZMusic as its music system, which is from GZDoom. A standalone library of this can be found here.


With one caveat: Thanks to the Build license clusterfuck I had to remove all MIDI players that are LGPL v3 or GPL, so only FluidSynth is available right now. I still plan to port the Build OPL player but that's a lower priority task, there's more important things to do first.

Sgt. Shivers wrote:[
Woah! This looks awesome, I can see it opening up a lot of modding possibilities!


Don't get too excited. There's a few things to note about Build games:

1. Each one is different.
2. Coding quality of all the original games is generally vastly inferior to Doom. Even Blood, which is more sophisticated than the rest isn't nearly as well structured - and all Build games suffer from the engine's own limitations, first and foremost the lack of named textures.
3. Hacks were an approved tool for all the original games to achieve special effects, most notably the ROR implementations are all different and mutually incompatible.

For now, reaching stability and a nice user interface are the primary concerns.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Teddipetzi » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:38 am

Wow, cool! :wub:

Let's hope this is what I've been waiting for all these years - a Build engine port that gets the fundamentals right before branching out into the cool features area.

So, from what I understand this is very much like BuildGDX, i.e. separate game code for all games, right? Is there really no chance to merge them together and are all those people correct that say the code is not compatible?

Which renderer does this use? Polymost or Polymer? Or both?
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Tea Monster » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:53 am

Polymost is very primitive and Polymer is a pile of crap. GZDoom has some kind of PBR renderer, that would kick ass if it works properly.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Kinsie » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:01 am

Teddipetzi wrote:So, from what I understand this is very much like BuildGDX, i.e. separate game code for all games, right? Is there really no chance to merge them together and are all those people correct that say the code is not compatible?
Most BUILD games have completely and totally different game code on every level, with the exception of a couple of games (Redneck Rampage, EXTREME PAINTBALL!) that also licensed the Duke code and used it as a base. In comparison, every officially licensed Doom engine game used either Doom 1 or 2 as a base, so it's a lot easier to find a cohesive middle ground between them.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby jdredalert » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:01 am

I knew it! After ZDuke being brought back from the dead and all the Build Engine discussions by the end of the last year, i had this strange feeling inside me that we would soon see something related to Build games here.

Thank you Graf and team, you guys really know how to make someone happy!
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:08 am

Tea Monster wrote:Polymer is very primitive and Polymer is a pile of crap.


So which one is which? I think you wanted to write "Polymost" for one of these. ;)


Teddipetzi wrote:Let's hope this is what I've been waiting for all these years - a Build engine port that gets the fundamentals right before branching out into the cool features area.


That's the plan - so don't expect fancy effects and cool lighting right out of the box. I think the Polymer renderer is a great example of something that got its effects added before the foundatiin was working, and we all know how it ended up (... that thing that's slow ...) Once there is a solid foundation these things can be added.

Teddipetzi wrote:So, from what I understand this is very much like BuildGDX, i.e. separate game code for all games, right? Is there really no chance to merge them together and are all those people correct that say the code is not compatible?


Yes, that's precisely what it is - 5 different game modules using the same backend. No, there really is no chance to merge it all together. Theoretically it could be done to merge RR with Duke, but that'd only be worthwile if the code was completely restructured so that the different elements can actually be used together. Unfortunately that's pretty much impossible because these games also feature a scripting language, which means that you cannot make changes which break the scripts.

Teddipetzi wrote:Which renderer does this use? Polymost or Polymer? Or both?


For now Polymost only. It remains to be seen where we can go from here. One thing is certain, though: Thanks to how it processes coordinates, it would be hard to do advanced effects with it.

jdredalert wrote:I knew it! After ZDuke being brought back from the dead and all the Build Engine discussions by the end of the last year, i had this strange feeling inside me that we would soon see something related to Build games here.


Trivia: The reappearance of ZDuke was a lucky coincidence, nothing more, actually. It was an interesting glimpse into history, but that's really all it was.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Cacodemon345 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:19 am

One question: did the original Build engine contain bulit-in physics apart from rendering?

I am actually looking forward to this port.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Redneckerz » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:20 am

Graf Zahl wrote:That's the plan - so don't expect fancy effects and cool lighting right out of the box. I think the Polymer renderer is a great example of something that got its effects added before the foundatiin was working, and we all know how it ended up (... that thing that's slow ...) Once there is a solid foundation these things can be added.

Plagman (Author of Polymer) only had some limited time to put that in, and he now works at Nvidia. Given that there has been nobody else having a go at it (I am not sure if the source is even available), it is simply existing. Ion Fury does not target Polymer either way, preferring software or Polymost at best.

I know icecoldduke has been doing a lot of high end Duke3D stuff in a similar fashion as dpJudas, but Ice has a habit of not finishing things. Which sucks, because the stuff he has worked on could have been interesting for this contraption.

Using Polymost gives one a stable base but its also not the latest OpenGL.

Graf Zahl wrote:Yes, that's precisely what it is - 5 different game modules using the same backend. No, there really is no chance to merge it all together. Theoretically it could be done to merge RR with Duke, but that'd only be worthwile if the code was completely restructured so that the different elements can actually be used together. Unfortunately that's pretty much impossible because these games also feature a scripting language, which means that you cannot make changes which break the scripts.

Okay, so this is more like a frontend to various game modules using the Build Engine (given how Build is simply a renderer). That sounds a bit like Retroarch to me honestly.

Graf Zahl wrote:Trivia: The reappearance of ZDuke was a lucky coincidence, nothing more, actually. It was an interesting glimpse into history, but that's really all it was.

I have it on the record that this thread is what inspired you. :wink:

And yeah, it was a lucky concidence both threads were roughly in the same timeframe. It seems the world was waiting for a marriage between Doomguy and Duke, especially now that the latter is on allowance at Gearbox. :lol:

So here we are then... :P
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