Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

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Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Jeimuzu73 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:37 pm



I know what I'm getting this Christmas, hehehe. :twisted:
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Nems » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 am

I'm still really iffy on the story trailer, to be honest. I've watched it a few times and I'm aware that there's a part in it that could be interpreted a number of ways but the fact that one of those ways is "Doomguy pulls a Kratos and decides to fight Heaven too" really doesn't sit well with me. Aside from it being an edgecringe direction to take in general, I don't see Doomguy as the kind of protagonist who would do that. Would he fight and even kill rogue angels who were a threat to humanity? Yeah, I absolutely think he would. However, unless Heaven pulled a Hell for whatever pants-on-head reason, Doomguy going to war against Heaven like he's been doing against Hell makes no sense and feels more like a forced attempt to make the Doomslayer """edgy""".

The voice about "bringing the Heavens down" could be a rebuilt super-Hayden speaking and maybe Hayden's idea of "heavens" is different from what the general accepted understanding we have of it. One of the collector's edition bonuses has a "Gift of Argent Power" lithograph and maybe for Hayden and the UAC Argent Power and those who offered it are revered somehow and that reverence could have an angelic/heavenly association to it despite not being literal. I don't know. I need to brush up on Doom 2016's lore about Argent power in that regard.

In any event, I'm just speculating on what limited info I have from the story trailer and I ain't particularly thrilled that the "Doomguy pulls a Kratos" spin is one possibility of where the story is going.

Aside from that, I like the gameplay that was shown at E3 (you know, actual fucking gameplay and not just pre-rendered bullshit) and hearing more of Mick Gordon's sweet tunes was nice. Don't think I'm gonna preorder yet though. I wanna see what's shown at Quakecon before I make any decisions on preordering (and despite loving Doom 2016 id's gonna have to really sell Doom Eternal harder if they want me to preorder).
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby dpJudas » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:49 am

Looks like yet another boring outdoor shooter to me. Also reminds me a little of Anthem's monsters: bullet sponges where you kill them by holding down the fire button. The Doom equivalent of fighting barons with the chaingun. I really hope that video isn't representative of the overall gameplay.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby MFG38 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:27 am

I'll admit that the new footage shown at E3 didn't do much for me either, albeit simply because it was nothing new for the most part.

That said, the Battle Mode does sound interesting.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby nologyn » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:46 am

At least, they remade cyberdemon to look like classic one.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Kinsie » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:58 am

Nems wrote:I'm still really iffy on the story trailer, to be honest. I've watched it a few times and I'm aware that there's a part in it that could be interpreted a number of ways but the fact that one of those ways is "Doomguy pulls a Kratos and decides to fight Heaven too" really doesn't sit well with me. Aside from it being an edgecringe direction to take in general, I don't see Doomguy as the kind of protagonist who would do that. Would he fight and even kill rogue angels who were a threat to humanity? Yeah, I absolutely think he would. However, unless Heaven pulled a Hell for whatever pants-on-head reason, Doomguy going to war against Heaven like he's been doing against Hell makes no sense and feels more like a forced attempt to make the Doomslayer """edgy""".

The voice about "bringing the Heavens down" could be a rebuilt super-Hayden speaking and maybe Hayden's idea of "heavens" is different from what the general accepted understanding we have of it. One of the collector's edition bonuses has a "Gift of Argent Power" lithograph and maybe for Hayden and the UAC Argent Power and those who offered it are revered somehow and that reverence could have an angelic/heavenly association to it despite not being literal. I don't know. I need to brush up on Doom 2016's lore about Argent power in that regard.

In any event, I'm just speculating on what limited info I have from the story trailer and I ain't particularly thrilled that the "Doomguy pulls a Kratos" spin is one possibility of where the story is going.
They've explicitly said you'll be visiting Hell, Heaven and other environments like the Sentinel Homeworld. The hows and whys aren't entirely known yet, but I highly doubt diplomacy is involved on either side.

dpJudas wrote:Looks like yet another boring outdoor shooter to me. Also reminds me a little of Anthem's monsters: bullet sponges where you kill them by holding down the fire button. The Doom equivalent of fighting barons with the chaingun. I really hope that video isn't representative of the overall gameplay.
It doesn't look like Anthem, it looks like more Doom 2016 with more options (both for combat and for movement). It sounds like they've really doubled down on the fight-to-resupply mechanics from the previous game - glory kills give health and chainsaw gives ammo like before, while flamethrowing a dude and shooting him makes him spray armor everywhere and melee hits apparently charge up an area-of-effect super-melee.

nologyn wrote:At least, they remade cyberdemon to look like classic one.
It's interesting just how much they're switching from their 2016 redesigns to adapting the old designs to the new visual style. I haven't seen it myself, but apparently the New Mancubus even has the skin-melting death sequence.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Enjay » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:36 am

Mixed feelings.

It looks much more like a modern evolution of the original games than anything else has (cyberdemon should be bigger though :p ). So that's good but nearly everything I have seen gameplay-wise has involved running and jumping around in a fake expansive (I.e. actually limited) open air arena map. I haven't seen any creeping around through tech bases or any other similar setting.

For me, the most fun and engaging Doom maps have always been the sci-fi settings. I'm really not that into hellscapes and bullshit hellish mysticism. Just about everything I have seen of this game is overtly hell themed. Even in the above videos, I get the impression that the fight is going on on the surface of mars, but it basically looks like hell. Fair enough, that's their choice but it doesn't really seem engaging to me (and it looks rather boring and predictable IMO). So, to hear that they are planning another bullshit mysticism setting (heaven) is quite a turn off for me. I just find the idea dull.

However, given that it will be distributed by the user-invited adware/spyware system known as Steam, I won't be playing it anyway.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Kinsie » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:00 am

Enjay wrote:It looks much more like a modern evolution of the original games than anything else has (cyberdemon should be bigger though :p ). So that's good but nearly everything I have seen gameplay-wise has involved running and jumping around in a fake expansive (I.e. actually limited) open air arena map. I haven't seen any creeping around through tech bases or any other similar setting.
A lot of the Doom 2016 "style" entails combat in closed off "skate park" style arenas connected together by more traditional, semi-linear corridor sequences (which seem to be a lot more platformer-y in the new game). There are some exceptions, though - the Foundry level in Doom 2016 is quite a bit more open then the rest of the game, setting you three objectives and leaving you to it.

Enjay wrote:However, given that it will be distributed by the user-invited adware/spyware system known as Steam, I won't be playing it anyway.
It'll also be made available using Bethesda's own launcher, and I believe physical copies of the game will use that. Granted, the Bethesda launcher suuuuuuucked the last time I used it for the Quake Champions beta, but you pick your fights.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby nologyn » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:52 am

Hmm.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Kinsie » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:30 am

nologyn wrote:Hmm.
From the B-roll sent to various press outlets:
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Matt » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:31 am

After Nems' and Enjay's comments I clicked the vids expecting MASSIVE CRINGE but this wasn't bad at all... best to think of it more as modern high-fantasy interdimensional stuff with no religious undertones whatsoever. Bringing down a paganized "Heaven" like that isn't even edgy, just vaguely subliminally quasi-Protestant.

That said: between the high-fantasy stuff, the ancient interdimensional superhero stuff and the focus being totally away from any contemporary setting (there's a reason why the 1993 game has numerous tropes from military conflicts that would have been familiar in the minds of American readers players at the time) we're basically left with none of the "relatable content" that helped create sympathy in the original games.

It's basically a bunch of aliens fighting each other, which is cool but what I play Doom for. No hobbits, just a blandly triumphalist post-Hollywood why-does-"gamer"-shit-always-look-like-that retelling of the Silmarillion or something.


EDIT: Just played the trailer with sound.
For what it's worth, it sounds like he says "bring down the heavens' wrath" not bring down the heavens.
If the "they" in "they are no longer your people to save" is who I think is being referred to, then what I'm griping about is explicit... unless we assume Hayden is just lying.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Nems » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:43 pm

I went back and watched (and rewatched) the trailer as well as the E3 conference a moment ago after I read Kinsie's post. Note to self: don't make posts at almost midnight while on a messed up sleep schedule. :P

Can't say I still like the premise/plot/story/whatever any better now that I've viewed it with fresh(er) eyes and heard it with fresh(er) ears, to be honest. Unless id's willing to divulge in a few more story details at Quakecon I'm probably gonna wait a week or two after Doom Eternal comes out before deciding if I'm gonna pick it up. That's what I did with Doom 2016.

Matt wrote:Bringing down a paganized "Heaven" like that isn't even edgy, just vaguely subliminally quasi-Protestant.


If you don't mind going into further detail, I'm genuinely curious and want to know more as to how this possible premise/plot/story is that.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Apeirogon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:28 pm

dpJudas wrote:Looks like yet another boring outdoor shooter to me. Also reminds me a little of Anthem's monsters: bullet sponges where you kill them by holding down the fire button. The Doom equivalent of fighting barons with the chaingun. I really hope that video isn't representative of the overall gameplay.

Double dpJudas.
And add, it looks mostly like wanna be old school shooter, not like old school shooter.
Yes, it add some nowadays mechanics to good old scheme, but in such clumsy that from "just like original doom, but in real 3D/without source port limitations, cool eh?" it transforms to "BOYYYYYYYYYYYYY IT JUST WORKS LIKE OLD DOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!1111111111111111111 EXCITING GAMEPLAY 12 OUT OF 10!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111 PRE ORDER NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111"

In another words, if you dont play shooters long enough, doom, and doom interval. would be a revelation for you, 12 out of 10 on the fingertips, goty, metacritic choice of a year, new word/milestone in shooters and game developing.
But if you play, and love/remembered/etc., original dooms, doom 3, duke nukem, fear, serious sam, stalker, time shift, all_others_significant_shooters_that_develop/add_something_to_shooter_archetype new doom, and doom external, would be a generic shooter without any raisin for you which would be forgotten in three, or so, months.
Or even worse, since instead of good old shoot em all mechanics you forced to jump from enemy to enemy like a mountain sheep on the cliffs to watch fatality cutscene to receive medikit/ammo.

Again, I dont say its a bad game (I respect modellers, sound artists, level designers, and etc. work) I say it just bad reincarnation of an old classic.
So if you overhyped with it, you not a bad person, you dont have a bad taste, you just greenhorn in exciting world of shooters, or even games a whole. There are shooters, and, again, games in whole, which do same things as shown in doom integral trailer but much, much better.
Maybe not from model quality perspective, but from all another definitely.

Note that its my opinion, it can (and most likely would) not match with yours.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby Enjay » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:42 pm

Matt wrote:After Nems' and Enjay's comments I clicked the vids expecting MASSIVE CRINGE but this wasn't bad at all... best to think of it more as modern high-fantasy interdimensional stuff with no religious undertones whatsoever. Bringing down a paganized "Heaven" like that isn't even edgy, just vaguely subliminally quasi-Protestant.

I don't think it will be a massive cringe for most. It's not even that for me. It just doesn't look like what I enjoy most about Doom. I always enjoyed the sci-fi shooter aspect of it rather than the hellscape stuff. But if the battles are scripted area-like ones, that is a big turn off. Boring!

Heaven? We'll see but it has been done before and getting all quasi religious on us (even though hell as always been a part of Doom) just seems a bit yawn-fest to me.

The publicity stuff is neither here nor there for me. It neither makes me feel better or worse disposed towards the game. However, it supported the suspicions that I already had about the game. i.e. that it probably isn't something that's really to my tastes; the kind of game that (for me) would be a play though once, maybe twice, revisit some fun bits again and then forget about it. But, as I said, because of its distribution model (Kinsie's comments notwithstanding) I probably won't play it anyway.
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Re: Doom Eternal E3 2019 Thread

Postby dpJudas » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:07 pm

I don't like hell maps either. But it is more than that. To rant a little about modern games: 9 out of 10 feels like a huge heightmap with a static structure here and there. This game is no different - the static structures are the platforms, the heightmap hell around it and you can see so far that you're never surprised what is around the corner.

Compare that with something like Square. All the way through episode 1 I wasn't sure what to expect as I progressed through the levels. Original Doom was like that too (when new), and so was Duke Nukem. The maps in UT99 varied a lot in style - some small indoor, other large, some in space. In Battlefield Bad Company 2 the destruction of the scenery made fights fun and unpredictable. None of that is present in these newer games, and I personally blame the shitty engines they use that essentially can draw outdoor well and makes anything indoor too much work. The compromise in design where its isles of static structures placed on a heightmap really shows.

Add the weapons and monster behavior on top of that. Visually they are very well made, but somehow there is again something missing when it comes to firing them or killing the enemies. Too many shaders and effects, too little basic feel of "I click fire, the shotgun goes BOOM". Maybe I'm a bit colored here by early games from the 80's and 90's, but I like simplicity in games. More is not always better. The monsters also all just seem to be standing more or less still in the demo, with facing barely more than one at a time. That's why I compared it to a fight where you're holding down fire with a chaingun in Doom 1 fighting a Baron. No offense to John Romero and co., chaingun and Barons are about as boring as shooters can get. Wait, I take that back - the hand gun in Doom is even more boring to fire, but at least that's a starter weapon. :)

If I was a young gamer that hadn't seen it all before, maybe I would find it more interesting. Apeirogon is right about that. To me there's nothing in the video that makes me feel I'd be missing out.
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