AvP 2.0 - JDREDALERT's Edition WIP Is Out For Testing !!

[jdredalert]

Don't worry 'bout hurricanes, dude. They never come not even close from here.

[Endless123]

Don't worry 'bout hurricanes, dude. They never come not even close from here.

Good to know, you still scared me man

[Endless123]

THE TIME HAS FINALLY COME

First here is a video presentation of the mod - all 3 classes shown



Now here is the mod - note that this is still a WIP and no completed but jd and i decided it would be a good thing to have your help for testing it and find bugs we haven't encountered yet.

AVP 2.0 Final WIP

The complete mod should be released soon, how soon? i don't know but you will all have the time to test this build and point out the flaws and find possible bugs.

Once again great thanks for your support, jd and me really appreciate it

---

Here is some stats and why i think you are great support :

AvP 1.3r1 was downloaded 2255 times
AvP 2 Demo was downloaded 426 times
AvP 1.3r1 for ZDoom was downloaded 588 times
AvP 1.3r1 Classic was downloaded 324 times

Considering that the only place those versions of the mod was only released here and no so many people watched the videos i made i youtube about them i think it's an awesome success and it's all thanks to you guys

Now let me explain a few things - For the Predator Class the "reload" button has 2 functions. While using the blades the "reload" triggers the lunge attack, on every other weapons it change the vision mode.
Also the smart disc act really differently now - it will attack enemies who are in line or really close to each others and then the player needs to press the "recall" button to have it back. The health/armor regeneration has been modified so only the health is regenerated while using the cheat

Many more new stuff in this mod but i will let you discover all the wonders jd added, you'll be blown away

Thanks for your great patience and awesome support again

Questions, bug report and other comments will be greatly appreciated

[Doctrine Gamer]

Your mod is fantastic, a masterpiece I would say, until the textures you have changed and I believe you have changed more things, I will find out when playing more.

You've had an incredible evolution since the first version of this mod so far, I was happy to see how you evolved my friend.

Congratulations! Your Mod is incredibly fun.

[Endless123]

Your mod is fantastic, a masterpiece I would say, until the textures you have changed and I believe you have changed more things, I will find out when playing more.

You've had an incredible evolution since the first version of this mod so far, I was happy to see how you evolved my friend.

Congratulations! Your Mod is incredibly fun.

Thanks, glad you like it

Jd(jdredalert) is mostly responsible for the evolution between 1.3r1 and 2.0. Don't get me wrong, he helped me a lot too with Kontra Kommando (really great modder, you should check his mods as well he is amazing ) for the 1.3r1 version and all the previous ones but for 2.0 he did a lot more than what was asked of him and that's why he deserves the credits for this build. He is the real star of this build and without him this build(2.0) would have never been made. That's why i added his name to the tittle of the mod, with all the work he did i think it's only fair to honor him and his work that way.

If you find any bugs tell us, we really want this mod to be bugless. Thanks for your comment

[Doctrine Gamer]

I am very grateful to jdredalert as well and to all who contributed to this mod.

I will try out the mod of them also for sure, since I test several mods.

I have now a question, I'm playing with Predator but only appears to me Marine weapons, is it normal?

[Endless123]

I am very grateful to jdredalert as well and to all who contributed to this mod.

I will try out the mod of them also for sure, since I test several mods.

I have now a question, I'm playing with Predator but only appears to me Marine weapons, is it normal?

The predator class is a special one - there is no weapon appearing on the map for the predator class. That's because of 2 reasons, first because it's the overpowered class and secondly because of consistency. You see it's not logic to have predator weapons laying on the maps like for the marine class. How can you have weapons you may ask? You kill other predators and trust me you will encounter quite a bunch in this mod. There is also 2 new mechanics with the predator class. The weapons are auto-upgrading depending on how you play. Melee weapons are upgraded by simply killing enemies with them, gathering "honor points". Once the honor points reach 500 the player gained one honor level which has for effect to improved the damage done by the melee weapons(wrist blades, spear/combistick, and smart disc). Energy weapons on the other hand are upgradeable by collecting trophies from strong foes. However the player has to use the wrist blades to kill a foe to be able to collect the trophy. Once the total of trophies reaches 20 the "Prestige" level up by one and improve all the energy weapons for both the damage and the energy cost of each use. The weapons affected by the prestige level are the plasma blaster and the plasma caster. As for the spear gun it has no damage scaling - it's already strong and since the ammo can't be found anywhere other than on other dead predators the player should use it sparingly.

However to give you an advantage i suggest you use the "start with a random weapon" cheat in the Misc menu to start a new game with an additional weapon along with your default one

If you have any other questions don't hesitate

[Doctrine Gamer]

"The predator class is a special one - there is no weapon appearing on the map for the predator class. That's because of 2 reasons, first because it's overpowered class and secondly because of consistency. on the maps like for the marine class. How can you have weapons you may ask? You kill other predators and trust me you will encounter quite a bunch in this mod."

Now I understand better how it works, you have to kill another Predator to get their weapon and it makes all sense everything you said above.

Thank you for asking me the question.

[Valherran]

Alrighty, I just got done with Doom 2's vanilla maps as all classes with this WIP version and here's my report:

One thing is for certain this is a massive improvement over the previous versions in terms of looks and functionality. I know this is still a WIP, but I am going to go over everything that needs addressing.

CLASSES

1. Marine - The game as it is now is in the Marine's favor with all of the goodies laying around the map. Other classes don't benefit from pickups at all except dead Preds dropping weapons for the Pred class (yes I know I am stating the obvious.) Essentially the Marine is a glass cannon, he dishes out tons of damage, but can't take a hit. This is a bit of a problem as the Marine is a bit too squishy for the vanilla map set, lots of save cheesing is needed to progress. The explosives the Marine has access to can easily kill him if he isn't careful, but often times he takes tons of damage from them even if you stand at a reasonable distance.

2. Predator - Fresh starts as a Pred can be overly difficult due to only having your wrist blades to fight with til you can kill an enemy Pred for its weapon. This is a major balance issue pending on what kind of map set you pick. However once you manage to acquire some weapons, the game goes from really hard to really easy. At level 10 the Pred is unstoppable and little to no strategy is involved in running over everything you see, even on the hardest difficulty.

3. Praetorian - Using the Praetorian is like starting as a level 5 Predator, you can mow through lesser enemies with your claws and tail stab the bigger ones. It got quite dull using the same strategies over and over to get through the game as the Praetorian's kit is severely lacking in variety.

WEAPONS:

1. Marine - The Marine's arsenal is pretty strong, though the weapon balance could be tweaked. Everything that uses bullets (except for the pistol) did a bit too much damage. Smartgun in particular was literally the god weapon . The shotgun was totally outclassed by the bullet weapons, I only pulled it out on rare occasions. The pulse grenades and the rocket launcher (S.A.D.A.R.?) were really hard to use due to being overly careful not to blow yourself up. I would be standing 20+ feet away from my target and manage to instantly kill myself with those 2 weapons.

2. Predator - The weapons got OP after like lvl 5, save for the spear gun, that thing was really weak except against zombieman variant spawns. At level 10, all you needed was the wrist plasma launchers because they pretty much 1-3-shot kill everything.

3. Praetorian - Not much to say here, the claws and tail are pretty standard (and did nearly the same damage.) Though it is still missing a lot of potential attacks such as the head-biting, the ramming charge, and the Goomba stomp.

CONTROLS:

I noticed the control layout was similar to how AvP functions where hotkeys were sharing functions, which is fine. But some functions could be consolidated by mapping the hotkey as a press and hold function or a double tap. Super jump for instance, that could be made to be used by pressing and holding the jump key instead of a hotkey toggle. If you are unsure how to do it, check out Project MSX, that has a bunch of multi key functions.

SUGGESTIONS:

1. Rework the damage numbers on everything so it doesn't become an insta-kill fest throughout the game at one point or another.
2. Fix the explosive weapons so they don't cause so much self damage.
3. Reduce the Predator's progression rate and reduce the power gained from it.
4. Allow the Predator to start with a full ammo Speargun to assist with the rough fresh starts.
5. The Pred's Wrist Blade uppercut and the Praetorian Tail Stab should be changed to a charge-up attack to deal its full damage like it was in the previous games.
6. Pulse Grenades were too rare to come by, maybe they can have a rare chance to spawn where health and armor bonuses spawn.
7. Not sure where you got that menu screen pic from, but something seems off and very unsettling about that Predator's face . A different pic would be better IMHO.

[Endless123]

1. Rework the damage numbers on everything so it doesn't become an insta-kill fest throughout the game at one point or another.
2. Fix the explosive weapons so they don't cause so much self damage.
3. Reduce the Predator's progression rate and reduce the power gained from it.
4. Allow the Predator to start with a full ammo Speargun to assist with the rough fresh starts.
5. The Pred's Wrist Blade uppercut and the Praetorian Tail Stab should be changed to a charge-up attack to deal its full damage like it was in the previous games.
6. Pulse Grenades were too rare to come by, maybe they can have a rare chance to spawn where health and armor bonuses spawn.
7. Not sure where you got that menu screen pic from, but something seems off and very unsettling about that Predator's face . A different pic would be better IMHO.

Here is a few things to know. The balance of the weapons and enemies isn't done yet and needless to say the predator class needs some adjustments. Jd and I have a little disagreement about the explosive radius that damage the player. I already tho it was a bit too much but jd shown me the "official stats" of the explosives used by the colonial marines and according to the lore many soldiers blew themselves up by using those when they were too close to their target. We still have to find a fair balance tho - we want the explosive to be effective but not too much.

The Predator's progression is not adjusted for a 32 maps wad, it's adjusted for the average 10-15 maps wads meaning on Doom 2 vanilla you reach full power quickly. Also the this class become stronger by using melee attacks, the more you are using the melee attacks the quicker the predator will become strong with those weapons. One of the reasons why jd an I released this WIP is specifically for players like you to give us some hints to better balance the mod. The problem with the predator progression is even with all weapons gathered the weapons melee weapons stay weak if they aren't used to kill enemies and the energy weapons remain weak if they are used against strong foes because their upgrades depends on the prestige level - the more trophies you collect the higher the damage of the energy weapons will be. However if you use those weapons to kill strong foes you can't collect the trophies because the trophies drop only if those strong foes are killed with the wrist blades. How to balance that thing then? The damage factor against the blades is too high, by reducing the damage factor on the enemies they will be a lot harder to kill.

About the Predator class starting weapon - there is a cheat in the Misc options that gives the player a random weapon on start. The uppercut is supposed to be a charged attack(that was my intention and i think jd forgot about it) About the predator picture i guess you are talking about the picture where the predator is holding a marine in one side and an alien on the other side right? Jd found it

In short a lot of your points can be condensed into one word - balance. The predator is supposed to be the overwhelming killing machine that only the strongest foes can compete against. Also the AI isn't implemented yet. For now you surely noticed that mercs and droids are spawning next to xenos without attacking each others. What jd and i want to do is to make them fight each others as soon as they see the player like if a battle was already going on and the player is arriving in the middle of the chaos. I have a little concern about this tho, it will take more than just a good balance to keep it challenging because all the player will have to do is to not be seen while the enemies fight each others which could greatly reduce the fun.

About the predator upgrades, the current formula is the basic damage multiplied with the level of honor/prestige. Instead i think i'll use the basic damage + (5*HL) or (5*PL) (HL=Honor Level and PL= Prestige Level) - i think that way the damage progression would be less drastic .

Thanks for your comments and suggestions, it's greatly appreciate

[Valherran]

Here is a few things to know. The balance of the weapons and enemies isn't done yet and needless to say the predator class needs some adjustments. Jd and I have a little disagreement about the explosive radius that damage the player. I already tho it was a bit too much but jd shown me the "official stats" of the explosives used by the colonial marines and according to the lore many soldiers blew themselves up by using those when they were too close to their target. We still have to find a fair balance tho - we want the explosive to be effective but not too much.

Lore wise that is correct, but that never carried over into any of the games (for obvious reasons). I noticed the projectile hit box of the Pulse Grenade was the same size as the SADAR rocket, which shouldn't be the case since the nade is 3x smaller.

The Predator's progression is not adjusted for a 32 maps wad, it's adjusted for the average 10-15 maps wads meaning on Doom 2 vanilla you reach full power quickly. Also the this class become stronger by using melee attacks, the more you are using the melee attacks the quicker the predator will become strong with those weapons. One of the reasons why jd an I released this WIP is specifically for players like you to give us some hints to better balance the mod. The problem with the predator progression is even with all weapons gathered the weapons melee weapons stay weak if they aren't used to kill enemies and the energy weapons remain weak if they are used against strong foes because their upgrades depends on the prestige level - the more trophies you collect the higher the damage of the energy weapons will be. However if you use those weapons to kill strong foes you can't collect the trophies because the trophies drop only if those strong foes are killed with the wrist blades. How to balance that thing then? The damage factor against the blades is too high, by reducing the damage factor on the enemies they will be a lot harder to kill.

About the predator upgrades, the current formula is the basic damage multiplied with the level of honor/prestige. Instead i think i'll use the basic damage + (5*HL) or (5*PL) (HL=Honor Level and PL= Prestige Level) - i think that way the damage progression would be less drastic .

Balancing that is quite simple, just start by toning down the amount of bonus stats you get from gaining levels and prestige. Then from there you can figure out what to tweak on the base damage. Plus you can always tone down the difficulty settings you have set to compensate when the numbers need to come down. I'm betting when the right nerfs come into play, that 5x damage setting from the last difficulty would be utterly impossible.

In short a lot of your points can be condensed into one word - balance. The predator is supposed to be the overwhelming killing machine that only the strongest foes can compete against. Also the AI isn't implemented yet. For now you surely noticed that mercs and droids are spawning next to xenos without attacking each others. What jd and i want to do is to make them fight each others as soon as they see the player like if a battle was already going on and the player is arriving in the middle of the chaos. I have a little concern about this tho, it will take more than just a good balance to keep it challenging because all the player will have to do is to not be seen while the enemies fight each others which could greatly reduce the fun.

For that to not occur so often, you'd have to find a way to make it rare that 2 different factions will spawn near each other in the same room, and you'd have to set it so that 1 side will be bigger than the other to prevent the player from sitting back with a bag of popcorn for too long.

Oh and I forgot to mention, please tone down the volume of the Combat Synth's exploding corpse, they are way too loud and shouldn't be heard globally like that.

[Endless123]

Let me explain something because i'm not sure i explained it correctly the first time. Not your fault it's mine.

The damage formula will be as following :

x + (y*z)

x = basic damage
y = extra damage added to x
z = the level(prestige or honor)

"Z" cannot go pass 10 so if the basic damage is 20 and the level of prestige is 10 the total damage will be 20 +(5*10) = 70. Depending on the weapon the "y" varies from 5 to 10. In short with this formula even at full prestige and honor levels the predator weapons won't be OP. With the old formula it was literally the basic weapon damage multiplied with the level of either prestige or honor which resulted in really high damage. Lets take the case i mentioned above, with a 20 basic damage the max damage was 200 compared to the 70 max damage with the new formula. The weapons will still be strong of course but not OP. You won't be able to kill a Goliath with one shot of the plasma caster. Also i adjusted the plasma blaster basic damage - it was 35 and now it's 15 with a maximum damage of 65 per projectile at max level. It's still fairly strong but with the predator enemies adjustments to their damage factors there is no way to kill any of them with only a few shots. The xp needed to level up the honor is now 999 instead of 500. That added with the new damage formula the predator class won't be as OP as it was. Still really strong but not invincible.

I'm also testing some modifications on the explosions damage and yes the projectiles of the pulse grenade was bigger than the rocket projectile - it's fixed now. About the volume of the droids when they explode ... there is something on your headset and your computer that is called a volume slider, you could use it More seriously tho, i will see what i can do to lower the volume of it. Nobody wants to have ear bleeding while playing this mod

Thanks again for your insight, it's really helping

[jdredalert]

I missed your reports, V. Anyway, let's go!

@The Marine's arsenal:

Back to drawing board, i think. Maybe the explosive radius off the explosives is a bit too much. The throwing grenades had a smaller radius and they indeed worked better. Maybe we should start from there. I made the Smartgun stronger so it wouldn't feel redundant with the Pulse Rifle. Lore-wise, Smartgun uses a bigger caliber than Pulse Rifle rounds. We should look for a middle ground between them. Now, about the saving cheese problem, i would normally do map01 to 10 runs with the rule of not saving in order to test the weapons. While i did succeeded numerous times, i have to consider that i made those weapons and tweaked the bad guys, so i know how everything works in a very intimate level and things should be easier to me. I'm not drawing the "get gud" card here, it's just that i know it's possible to progress without saving, but I'll surely take your feedback in consideration. Oh, and did you tested the seismic charges? You didn't said a word about those... they share the spawn rate with the pulse grenades, that's why the pulse nades seems a li'l bit rare.

@Predator:

This: "4. Allow the Predator to start with a full ammo Speargun to assist with the rough fresh starts". I like this. That may be good and brings back good memories from the very first two AvP games. Also, we will discuss about the balance issues.

@Praetorian's kit is severely lacking in variety:

Praetorian indeed needs more love. We'll try to figure out how to make it better. It's hard to make a good Xenomorph player class because the xeno's signature ability in AvP games was crawling on the walls and ceiling. I don't know if that's already possible in GZDoom because i was away for a while, so if there are ways to make this happen, we are all ears, same with suggestions on new strategies and moves.

[Endless123]

The Praetorian class is a bit limited because the xenos themselves are limited in their set of moves and unless someone knows how to make a player walk on walls or ceilings the moves will be limited to spitting acid, bite attack, pounce attack, claw attack and tail attack. We all seen that kind of stuff in other mods but only for enemies, i never seen it done on the player side. It a bit complicated to find something original to have a more diverse set of skills for this class. Unlike the Predator and Marine classes it can't use weapons because the Praetorian only relies, like all xenos, on their speed, stealth and killing skills. It doesn't mean we will not try to improve it the best we can. Now that the Marine and Predator classes are practically done all that remains is give some extra care to the Praetorian class and work on the balance so this mod will be challenging without being too "Dark Souls" kind of hard.

[-Ghost-]

Can the praetorian sneak? Part of the problem might be that all 3 classes are very offense oriented, when in the earlier games I think it was more Marine was damage, predator was kind of in between, and xeno was sneak n' stab. It might help the Praetorian out to make it just more distinctive as a class that way.