[WAD bug] [[.63a & .96] Stuck after teleport

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[[.63a & .96] Stuck after teleport

Postby Lonesome Sparrow » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:25 pm

In The Garrison, one of the Master Levels for Doom 2,
when you take the teleporter to the platform with the
red key, you get stuck on that platform.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:55 pm

Interesting. This error is caused by changing the R_PointOnSide function to be more efficient. When the original version is restored this works as expected.

This might explain a lot of strange occurences that have been reported in the last few years...
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Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:10 pm

In response to Enjay's post here:


The 'sliver' in the nodes comes from a different method to calculate on which side of a node a point lies. Randy changed this some time ago so that points directly on a node line can produce different results. The map in the other thread is a great example to test the effect. The position of the red key results in an incorrect sector being calculated. Apparently some node builders are rather sensitive towards this. And as I said, using Doom's original code instead of Randy's optimized routine certainly fixes that particular problem.

I'd really like to analyze this in more detail but for that I'd need a node viewer. Does anyone here know about such a tool?
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Postby randi » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:13 pm

I have not looked at the map in that bug report. However, in reference to the map Enjay mentioned, it really does have a thin, misplaced one-dimensional subsector that he was "lucky" enough to land inside of, which I discovered by using Wintex's node builder.

Changing the point on side function shouldn't help that because it is a genuine defect in the map's nodes. And keep in mind that a floating point routine will never be able to duplicate a fixed point version for diagonal lines.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:06 am

I suspect the same here but I'd like to examine the nodes in this particular map because the effect is so easily reproducable there. Maybe it will help giving a clue what is happening.

The lines in question here are perfectly orthogonal btw.

WinTex you say? I have to try that...
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Postby Cutmanmike » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:15 am

Graf Zahl wrote:WinTex you say? I have to try that...


Yes, yes! Turned to the dark side at last! *manical laughter*
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Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:59 am

At least it has a node viewer. And it confirmed what Randy said: There's indeed two node lines running through that spot and one of them is of that particular kind. So it really is a node bug that was just masked by Doom's incorrect PointOnLine function which placed the point on the other side of that malformed node.
So am I right to assume that this will be filed as a WAD bug? The problem I am seeing with that is that at least one of the common node builders creates buggy nodes that are incompatible with ZDoom. According to the text file BSP was used for it and there's a lot of maps out there that have been using it.

But Wintex is truly an utterly abysmal piece of crap overall...
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Postby Cutmanmike » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:25 am

Usable however. I refuse to use XWE as much due to the fact it ripped one of my projects to splinters when I was working hard on it.
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Postby Phobus » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:49 am

If I were to drop programs for the same purpose I wouldn't have stuck with DEU2 for as long as I did, and I probably wouldn't be using DB now (It once raped a map I did, but that was just the once).
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Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:26 am

Cutmanmike wrote:Usable however



In your dreams! WinTex ranks among the most needlessly convoluted user interfaces I ever encountered. XWE's only problem is that it is working on the actual file you are editing and not a copy. So the simple solution is to make the copy before starting it. You should do that anyway before making crucial changes to anything.
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Postby Cutmanmike » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:57 am

I know but it's too late for that now! :(

I'm using wintex now and I fail to see any problems. The only issue I have with it are the fact it creates a duplicate lump every time you make a change to one. Easily solved however, just delete it.

Other than that it's usable. Plus i've been using it long before XWE was out so i'm used to using it now and i'm pretty used to all the glitches it has and have work arounds to make it do what I need.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:09 am

XWE is still twice as fast for most tasks.
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Postby Cutmanmike » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:28 am

Yet I find myself moving lumps around in order (mainly between S_START/END etc lumps) very difficult and slow.

Idea, let's quit this silly debate and use what we personally like best =:)
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Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:59 am

Better idea: Use Zips with the next version. ;)
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Postby Cutmanmike » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:07 am

Zips you say? I'm not sure I follow?
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