Blatant antisemitism [Brutal Hexen RPG split]

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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby eierfrucht » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:37 am

Some people simply put their PayPal in their signature / wherever and it works. Others send them money, oh boy they do.

Having read some of the dude's posts over the internet, just by the way he calques certain words and idioms from his first language I am now able to pinpoint his native culture (but I'm not going to push this line any further).

All I can say is that now I'm dead sure he genuinely does not view his past actions as jeopardizing others. He «makes good stuff» therefore anyone attempting to hinder his progress due to «legal trifles» isn't worth listening to «simply because» those who «oppose the making of good stuff» must be pretty dumb and should be morally discarded even if unwillingly awarded a kind of superficial respect.

A lot of cultures are like that, in fact maybe two thirds of Earth's population are brought up within a variety of ethical frameworks infinitely alien to the western mind. It's just that a very small percentage of those people ever get interested in reaching out to the 'outlanders' let alone learning their language. So there's a lot of cultural shock when the opposite sides of the spectrum meet on occasion. So sad an so predictable.

TL;DR My butt is on fire 'cause this story rekindled an old allergy that had grown out of a lifetime among people like that.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby Lagi » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:07 am

Hey eierfruch ! Im from eastern europe too! Maybe stop fear mongering, base on other peoples passports.

and i dont steal cars (just the expensive one :D)
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:06 am

Lagi wrote:Hey eierfruch ! Im from eastern europe too! Maybe stop fear mongering, base on other peoples passports.


That and accusing someone of "shekeleering". English is not my first language, so I might be wrong there, but it comes across as downright antisemitic. :?
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby Doomguy914 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:35 am

Can we not? I'm sure if there was a legitimate issue with that shekel term, the mods and staff that have been pouring over this forum would have already mentioned something about it. Not everything has to be immediately offensive to someone. :roll:
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby wildweasel » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:42 am

Doomguy914 wrote:Can we not? I'm sure if there was a legitimate issue with that shekel term, the mods and staff that have been pouring over this forum would have already mentioned something about it. Not everything has to be immediately offensive to someone. :roll:

Just because we haven't said anything publicly doesn't mean we haven't potentially discussed it.
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Blatant antisemitism [Brutal Hexen RPG split]

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:09 am

Doomguy914 wrote:Can we not? I'm sure if there was a legitimate issue with that shekel term, the mods and staff that have been pouring over this forum would have already mentioned something about it.


Fair enough.
Last edited by JohnnyTheWolf on Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby Doomguy914 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:11 am

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:
Doomguy914 wrote:Can we not? I'm sure if there was a legitimate issue with that shekel term, the mods and staff that have been pouring over this forum would have already mentioned something about it.


Fair enough.


Nah, I was being a dick. Apologies. If you think it's questionable from now on just report it and mods and staff will take care of it. What I was just told.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:22 am

Doomguy914 wrote:
JohnnyTheWolf wrote:
Doomguy914 wrote:Can we not? I'm sure if there was a legitimate issue with that shekel term, the mods and staff that have been pouring over this forum would have already mentioned something about it.


Fair enough.


Nah, I was being a dick. Apologies. If you think it's questionable from now on just report it and mods and staff will take care of it. What I was just told.


I could not tell. :o

It is the first time I came across that term and when I looked it up, what I found was rather... worrying? But then again, English is not my first language, so maybe I am missing something and this is just part of the vernacular. If the moderators do not take issue with the term, then I will not.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby Rachael » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:32 am

There are two things I want to say about that:

First, I personally don't know every little thing that is offensive or potentially offensive. I came across that word and it was the first time I had ever seen it. So by all accounts - take us overlooking the issue by itself with a grain of salt.

Secondly, I am very much against hate speech. But the line between what actually is hate speech and what isn't is very blurred, there's a lot of gray area. And I am a full believer in the idea that words by themselves usually don't have much meaning, it's how they are used that matters most. And I am not trying to take a "centrism" angle here with this, but I also strongly believe that policing out anything that is even "potentially" offensive does far more harm than good. Our society didn't turn to shit because some fuck-ass shit-heads used the N-word. It turned to shit because of the insane and massively untrue shit, including the hateful ideology associated with the N-word, that they've propagated amongst themselves which in turn made them hate and commit violence against the rest of us, and sometimes against even each other (and there's well-documented cases about that), even if that word doesn't apply to us directly.

Furthermore, you cannot grow unless you are challenged. While that doesn't mean we should just take particularly egregious and obvious offenses in stride and ignore them, it also means that we cannot go on a whack-a-mole spree on every single statement that is slightly offensive. If a statement causes a lot of people to be upset, then we will take action - and we've been consistent on this for a long time, even and including a recent questionable mod that did happen to upset many folks. Otherwise, yeah, there are going to be some spicy things that are said, and it's better to come with evidence and education about it and to inform others, than to be hurt by it.

So if the shekel word is truly a terrible word, please let us know why and give us context of how it has been abused in the past, so that we may better inform ourselves and make the appropriate decisions. Thank you.

Again, let me reiterate, we do not always know every word that is offensive or why, so if we don't know, tell us.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:10 pm

Just to be clear, I have no way of knowing if eierfruch meant it in a hateful way. In fact, I do not even know if ZDL_800 is Jewish or anything. As far as I am aware, the Shekel is Israel's currency, but a cursory research tells me that the word is commonplace in antisemitic propaganda and googling "shekeleering" gave me results that link to chan-type websites and neo-Nazi social media.

Wiktionary notably has this to say: "(slang, often antisemitic) Money, especially that purportedly owned or distributed as bribes by Jewish elites."

I do not mean to start a flame war here, I sure learned my lesson in that regard. I am just confused as to why someone would use such a loaded term instead of "rip off" or "swindle".
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby Rachael » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:27 pm

Yeah, I get you, there. And agree.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby Doomguy914 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:12 pm

I'd be on the safe side and say that it is used a a derogatory term but in the context they used here, they likely mean like Wolf said, swindled or ripped-off. It became so widely spread that I'm sure most people don't even know the origins and it was just internet terminology that was accepted and used by a lot of people.

I mean, being gypped is technically an acceptable term from a quick google search and an Oxford dictionary definition, but it's origins are referring to thieving gypsies. Probably a matter of time until that word is deemed unacceptable as well. While shekel is definitely an actual currency, I'm pretty sure it gained its popularity in antisemitism.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby eierfrucht » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:00 pm

Shekeleering is a portmanteau of shekel and social engineering. The word originated in the chan subculture and is likely to have been inspired by the Happy Merchant meme. So its usage is about as hateful (if at all) as the Happy Merchant himself.

To shekeleer specifically means to offer 'free' stuff that turns out paywalled, especially in a self-defeating fashion (like a master plan that was obvious to fail from the get-go). The word was coined to describe people who would respond to others' pleas to 'deliver' something (often copyrighted) by uploading it to a file hosting under a 'premium only' category so that they earn a few cents (the 'lonely shekel') after you purchase a $15 subscription to the said hosting's service.

Apparently this never worked but there were 'data hoarder' types who kept doing this for months on end across the various Requests boards. Their bizarre confidence in their newfound 'get-rich-quick' ways absolutely cried for a new word.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby wildweasel » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:07 pm

eierfrucht wrote:The word originated in the chan subculture

... Which is exactly why I'm so leery about it, to be honest. :?

(edit) I got curious and googled "the happy merchant" - the very first result is a page by the Anti Defamation League, with a visual example (CONTENT WARNING: they do not censor it or anything related to it, and it gets nasty), that makes no bones about it being blatantly antisemitic. So, if you thought there was no ill will behind the word or the meme it's associated with, it's probably wise to never, ever use either of them again.
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Re: BRUTAL HEXEN RPG (ZDL Edition) v4.7

Postby eierfrucht » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:28 pm

"shekeleering" gave me results that link to chan-type websites and neo-Nazi social media.

May I ask you to PM me where exactly on the Neo-Nazi social media you discovered a persistent pattern of use for 'shekeleering'?

If some people got overexcited with the root «shekel» and integrated «shekeleering» into Neo-Nazi discourse, I'm definitely not saying that word again.

I'm aware that the Happy Merchant was ripped from A. Wyatt Mann's racist cartoons but the very crudeness and naivety of the stereotype in that particular picture (and a general lack of tact among the chans' denizens) soon led to a satirical reimagining of the meme until it became a way of poking fun at the various 'cunning' schemes that would never work, or mocking another person's malicious glee over successful petty revenge.
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