Doom Redux - Attempt #3

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Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby _bryan » Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:15 pm



https://codeberg.org/_bryan/doom-redux-v2





I’m making this post in an attempt to see if there’s any interest and also to ask for help. The tl;dr version is I have a mix of repurposed and original assets that I want to use for a map set. I’m looking for a partner with mapping experience to first catalogue the various assets I have available and from that work on a high level design for a map that is a kind of reinvisioning of what UAC is and exactly where it during experimentation went wrong.

The video on the latest revision on the project:



And for reference, the two earlier attempts at such a project:

Revision 1: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=69008&p=1157165#p1157165
Revision 2: https://codeberg.org/_bryan/doom-redux-v2 (video)

Note: I’ve got no idea if either of these run, and they’re both WIPs. Honestly there’s some programmer art test things that I wish I ripped out, but for sake of leaving it as is I haven’t scrapped anything.

Not all of us who develop games or software as a hobby have a good functioning ability to see where the limit is. I think all of us know what it feels like to lose yourself in a concept and to think about it only in terms of how great would it be if it was here. I fell victim to this and self-imposed work. I collapsed, burned out completely, and went to go live under a rock. The worst and most shameful part being nobody does it to you, you do it to yourself.

While I didn’t work on this entirely in a bubble, it was very much a project where the design document was in my head and the best I could ask of the artists was whatever I was thinking at that coincidental moment. It’s an exhausting way to work and without an actual plan the only way I could do it was in the moment itself. In other words, the perfect storm for shit managed project. While I can’t speak for anybody individually on their investment towards what they’ve made for me, if I was on the other end I’d be saddened to see it end like this had it been mine time.

I make this post in the hopes of reaching out to somebody that can help me as a type of sparring partner work on coming up with a rough design of what it should actually be. Input from an experienced mapper, or somebody who has done something similar, is very valued as it not only needs to look good but has to be worth playing. I want to see the assets at least see some form of a proper map release that at the very least will provide a solid balanced experience to the player.

If you have questions about the previous revisions feel free to post them here and I’ll do my best to answer them. If you’re interesting in using any textures or assets yourself, then by this point you’re allowed under the condition that you credit the project (not me) and link to the GitHub repository as the original source. You may also pull apart the map to use segments for any other purpose. The only thing to note is a lot of placeholders textures were also created using the 'King Pin' texture set available on realm 667. Most brick work, wood, and floor textures belong to this.

For those interested in talking about more details, I'm available on GZDoom Discord, HDest Discord, or here via private message. I've also created a server incase you can't reach me on discord via the other channels:

https://discord.gg/nQCbKXMn3g
Last edited by _bryan on Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby kalensar » Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:09 am

I downloaded the Revision 2 file and,.... That's pretty snazzy work honestly. Given the level put into that version I would say the current revision 3 would have really good promise of being good. I'm kinda glad I didn't sleep on this one. It has a nice atmosphere to it that stems from both Resident Evil and FEAR 1 type atmosphere, but with doom monsters. Given that it already has good craftsmanship put into it, it's rather hard to point out the flaws honestly., except for rectifying all the errors present in the GZD console that is.

For anyone else, definitely worth checking out. Not one to sleep on at all.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby _bryan » Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:31 am

kalensar wrote:I downloaded the Revision 2 file and,.... That's pretty snazzy work honestly. Given the level put into that version I would say the current revision 3 would have really good promise of being good. I'm kinda glad I didn't sleep on this one. It has a nice atmosphere to it that stems from both Resident Evil and FEAR 1 type atmosphere, but with doom monsters. Given that it already has good craftsmanship put into it, it's rather hard to point out the flaws honestly., except for rectifying all the errors present in the GZD console that is.

For anyone else, definitely worth checking out. Not one to sleep on at all.


I appreciate the positive feedback. The inspiration from older generation shows which is a good sign. But also let's not pack on the pressure before I've begun any real work :)

As far as the technical work goes, it's large but it's not complete and doesn't feature certain zones in the capacity that I'd wanted. As well with having a map this large, the amount of trickery that is involved with managing AI lifetime, music switching, and keeping it running within some kind of decent frame-rate made it more complicated and things I had to maintain. There are also item based puzzles, some kind of crafting system somewhere, and interactions with items in the map which I didn't have time to do something to properly let the player know. On top of that it should have had a story, but there was no way to maintain or oversee it all by myself at this point. As far as I remember some of these systems are mostly functional, but I don't even remember what some of them were. I know there's some books, some kind of chemistry station, and a numpad key door.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby RKD » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:16 am

Just a thought but, if your map is so big that you struggle with the things you want to do in it, does it really need to be one big map? You can divide it in multiple ones (even make them work as a hub) to have more freedom with the ammount of things you want to populate your project.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby _bryan » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:55 am

RKD wrote:Just a thought but, if your map is so big that you struggle with the things you want to do in it, does it really need to be one big map? You can divide it in multiple ones (even make them work as a hub) to have more freedom with the ammount of things you want to populate your project.


In the grand scheme of things, and I guess only something I'd really understand by trying it, no. The original intent and gimmick was a large mega-map that doesn't require switching maps. The next revision is going to be designed as a hub map so that the relevant sections can be worked separately and that I won't be so constrained by geometry choices.

Regardless I think it's kind of a fun gimmick and maps like these for multiplayer sessions can do a lot for making it feel big since different players can occupy different parts at different times. I was also thinking about this and considering PVP. With a hub map you wouldn't be able to do this.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby kalensar » Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:58 pm

I'm no stranger to mega projects or mega-mods as I've contrived at least 2 of my own. That said, sometimes less is actually more. As a living anecdote to this, Bethesda literally adopted KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid, as their motto during the period they placed their last hopes on Morrowind of digging them out of the gutter.

Basically trimming the fat would probably be the best route for a project like this one that has more than enough material to make a very freaking awesome map as is.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby _bryan » Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:21 am

kalensar wrote:I'm no stranger to mega projects or mega-mods as I've contrived at least 2 of my own. That said, sometimes less is actually more. As a living anecdote to this, Bethesda literally adopted KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid, as their motto during the period they placed their last hopes on Morrowind of digging them out of the gutter.

Basically trimming the fat would probably be the best route for a project like this one that has more than enough material to make a very freaking awesome map as is.


While I definitely agree with this sentiment, I don't think it applies that much here. The most complicated systems are probably the chemistry station and the books. A lot of is just traditional mapping and scripting techniques that are all just mashed up in one map. As far as I see it, there's no crazy technical magic or mapping techniques happening. I'd also be back to my original problem of working in a bubble and sure I can go through and start shaving things out, but I have almost no information to go off other than how much people really like the look and that it's mostly positive. The less is more though definitely. I mostly worked only added things and never scrapped or revised parts.

My plan of attack for the next one in either case is to use the layout of revision 2 as the base for a hub style map and to make compromises in area between size and functionality. Certain areas like the courtyards will feel different, but like I said earlier after having it all together and trying it out I don't feel like this seamless style for this type of map really works. Having the maps technically be divided is also better for maintainability, and also that each map area can be more complex. Something that also happens in this map is that after you reach a certain point the 'state' changes which involves a pretty aggressive script to modify nearly the whole map. It'd be easier and more maintainable to have two separate maps for pre- and post- transition areas.

I'd appreciate some help. I'm not expecting anybody to have to get their hands dirty and dive through my code/images, but if you've played it and have some familiarity with it I can use a lot of help and feedback on making a plan to approach that. I can also just screen share and explain it via discord or something. In that way, it's an iterative process to shaving out what's not needed and also being able to zoom in better on possible alternatives and that I'm receiving some kind of actual input to turn into a complete and properly released solid map.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby _bryan » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:09 am

I'll say again thanks to the few guys that displayed interest in seeing the final product. Unfortunately for the few waiting, I haven't been able to find the help I'm looking for so that final product isn't coming. I've included screenshots in the top post for those interested, but be aware any bugs/issues you run into will not be fixed.
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Re: Doom Redux - Attempt #3

Postby Dynamo » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:26 am

Pity, because the screenshots you have look really promising and interesting.
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