Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

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Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby EinhanderZwei » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:16 am

Hello folks! :)

My name is Sergei, and 2 years ago I've posted here about a wad I was doing at the time, Project Savior: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31749
Due to some either uninterested and/or negative feedback (NOT from the Doom community, mind you), I subsequently threw it away and abandoned, thinking I'll unlikely get into gamedev again.

Well, until now that is.

This is OCEAN, a GZDoom TC I'm working on during the last few months, and on June, 8th (World Ocean Day) it has reached the demo status! So it's not a proof-of-concept, not an idea, but an actual demo, with actual (partial) arsenal, textures, maps, enemies and so on. Also, it's very heavy on plot, involving themes like environmentalism, psychology, as well as some gore, zombies and bewbs to avoid boredom :P

You can check out the screenshots on my DeviantArt account: http://ocean-2024.deviantart.com/galler ... creenshots

Download links and release notes can be found here: http://e-u-l-mk2.blogspot.com/2014/06/o ... eased.html

Also, please keep in mind it's not 100% bug-free obviously, so there will be some annoyances around (ex. the launch time is higher than it should be due to the unclean TEXTURE lumps), as well as the balance may be off by the end...

Now, what does Project Savior have to do with it? Well, OCEAN reuses some of the resources, maps and sprites from there; but right now they're completely remade, redrawn and redesigned :geek:

Have fun! Looking forward to your feedbacks :D
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby TheAdmantArchvile » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:56 pm

I'm getting a malware warning from Chrome. Forewarning, everyone.
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby EinhanderZwei » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:57 pm

Malware?? :shock: How, where? :shock:
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Sinael » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:11 pm

No malware warnings here, using chrome too. Check your antivirus.

On topic. This looks interesting, but I have some negative feedback though: most textures look like they were photographed than downscale/blurred without any post edition, therefore lots of weird color dots, in best traditions of the first 90-era "realism" attempts. GZDoom can handle true color textures, so use them!

Art consistency also needs some work: at first there are anime girls in photo's and thumbnails, but then there's a real life photo billboards and other stuff like out-of-place looking guns and stuff like that - you should either go at semi-realistic or anime-ise everything, chose one style and go with it.

Mapping - some parts are nice, some parts are ugly, textures surely need some work as I've stated above. If you go for animesque look I'd suggest redrawing stuff in a crisp cartoon way - it would look much better in Doom than photo-textures, and would also align much better. The doors that shut back right after they been opened, holes (in the hull I guess?) and windows should actually have something behind them, some basic landscape or at least a skybox.

You should get some people who actually actively mod/play doom on a regular basis on you little team - that would surely help you.
Last edited by Sinael on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Cage » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:35 pm

Hey, not bad!

I have only checked the shots so far, the texture quality varies a bit and the outside view looks a bit more like sky than deep space IMO, but pretty decent so far. It gives off the Marathon vibe a bit.

EinhanderZwei wrote:Also, it's very heavy on plot, involving themes like environmentalism, psychology, as well as some gore, zombies and bewbs to avoid boredom :P


Hope they're justified, not just boobs for the sake of boobs! :P

Good luck!
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Ed the Bat » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:53 pm

Just downloaded it, haven't played it yet. Checked inside the download. Found the game split amongst at least three packages, two of which just seem to be Freedoom resources. Also see some redefined actors in the third package (including DoomPlayer). None of this instills confidence.
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby EinhanderZwei » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:37 pm

Woo, thank you for the feedback guys! :D

Sinael wrote:most textures look like they were photographed than downscale/blurred without any post edition, therefore lots of weird color dots, in best traditions of the first 90-era "realism" attempts. GZDoom can handle true color textures, so use them!


You've got a keen eye sir! That's actually where they came from. To be 100% honest, it was sort of intentional to simulate the 'cheap Duke 3D wannabe' look, so it can be considered a pro and contra at the same time. Also, are you referring to the screenshots or to the actual wad? I've had them slightly altered between taking the screenshots and releasing, so if they still look meh ingame, I'll take a second look :)

Sinael wrote:Art consistency also needs some work: at first there are anime girls in photo's and thumbnails, but then there's a real life photo billboards and other stuff like out-of-place looking guns and stuff like that - you should either go at semi-realistic or anime-ise everything, chose one style and go with it.


Well, right now there actually is some sort of a balance: anime-sque characters during the gameplay and photorealistic people on posters/title cards and so on. Now, I've tried to manipulate the latter to give them some kind of a 'cartoonish'/'comic book' look, but again, I'll see what I can do to avoid stylistic clashes. However, I'm curious about the weapons... to me, they blend in alright with the whole 'used future'-techbase style. Or do they? :(

Sinael wrote:Mapping - some parts are nice, some parts are ugly


Heh, those are actually my first 'serious' mapping attempts. I'm not defending or justifying myself - flaws are still flaws - just trying to say that I know I'm not the best mapper in the world, and there's a LOT of room for improvement. In fact, I'm now studying the mapping styles of DOOM 64 and TNT, because of the classic series, those two are the closest to the atmosphere I'm trying to create

Sinael wrote:If you go for animesque look I'd suggest redrawing stuff in a crisp cartoon way - it would look much better in Doom than photo-textures, and would also align much better.


Like I said, I'll definitely look into it more - I'm aware that the textures are very ecclectic here and there and need additional manipulation :)

Sinael wrote:The doors that shut back right after they been opened


That's a deliberate design choice that will explained plot-wise :)

Sinael wrote:holes (in the hull I guess?) and windows should actually have something behind them, some basic landscape or at least a skybox.


Hang on, but there are skyboxes and stuff... :(

Sinael wrote:You should get some people who actually actively mod/play doom on a regular basis on you little team - that would surely help you.


That's the biggest issue I'm having right now, I admit - there's no 'team' in the traditional sense, as all the technicals are done by me and me only. I'm just a human being, so I can be simply shy - that's why I've decided to post about this project here only today... but hopefully I'll get more valuable feedbacks like this, instead of blind praise a la 'yay, this is awesome! I used the cheats and had a blast!'

Cage wrote:I have only checked the shots so far, the texture quality varies a bit and the outside view looks a bit more like sky than deep space IMO, but pretty decent so far. It gives off the Marathon vibe a bit.


I've addressed the textures above, so yeah... in short, I agree with that part. However, it's supposed to take place underwater :) And thanks for catching the Marathon influences! I'm not even trying to hide them - in fact, the original engine for this was Aleph One - before I ran into tech difficulties and went back to the engine I'm comfortable enough with, GZDoom

Cage wrote:Hope they're justified, not just boobs for the sake of boobs! :P


But of course they are! They are here for realism, and realism only; I don't want this to become the next Dragon's Crown for sure :D And besides, it's still tamer than, say, Duke Nukem 3D - one character is topless (and her hair covers up all the interesting parts anyway), and another wears a cleavage; and that's pretty much it...

Ed the Bat wrote:Checked inside the download. Found the game split amongst at least three packages, two of which just seem to be Freedoom resources.


Hm, well, all the necessary resources are gathered in ocean24.pk3 - if you have Doom 2 and/or FreeDoom, the WADs are not needed (since yes, both are cut-down versions of FreeDoom). Please keep in mind that:
* I was forced to do this in order to make the launch comfortable also for people who never ran a Doom source port in their life;
* Those who know how to run PWADs will run them anyway;
* For those who don't know, I don't want to write down lengthy manuals they won't read;
* I know I could've just stated somewhere that they need to download FreeDoom as well, but I don't want situations to emerge when due to the command line typos, the regular FreeDoom launches, and the player thinks that's my wad and praises it...

Ed the Bat wrote:Also see some redefined actors in the third package (including DoomPlayer). None of this instills confidence.


Yes, some of them are redefined; some use inheritance, some are written from scratch, and some are the same but with different sprites. I know that DECORATE needs just as much cleanup as TEXTURE, so don't worry - I have that on my schedule ;)
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Ed the Bat » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:39 pm

I do understand the merit of offering it prepackaged for those who are totally new to sourceports. I was mainly indicating that there's stuff that rather seriously needs a cleanup. Since you already know this and have it on your to-do list, then I suppose I have nothing to worry about. And since I haven't played the game itself yet, I will reserve my judgments on it -- it would be unfair of me to judge the content based on unrelated things like this. I'll come back with my opinions on the actual game once I've sat down and played it.
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby EinhanderZwei » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:42 pm

Thank you for understanding! :) I'm planning to spend the whole upcoming weekend on optimizations and repackages before improving/resuming the wad itself. Unfortunately, it was all caused by the deadline I've set to myself - June, 8 (World Ocean Day), so I was aware of the majority of issues but had no time to address them before the upload :(
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Cage » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:04 am

EinhanderZwei wrote:However, it's supposed to take place underwater :)


I know :) Thought that the term deep space means also a low, deep water level but guess not, lol. Guess "the deep" is more proper ;)

One more thing: If you want to make it somewhat realistic, think about any safety precautions this kind of facility would need - construction wise, maybe some kind of airlocks in maps (to seal of areas in case of breach)
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Jimmy » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:11 am

Okay, I apologize in advance for being brutal, but I really am not terribly impressed so far.

This needs a LOT of work. I can see quite a bit of work has already gone into this thing, but the execution is pretty bad. I played for about 10 minutes and quickly realized there was a lot to be done. For one thing, holy shit that's a lot of texture errors when you first load it up. Took about a minute for the game to get going because of all those. The textures that are there have been butchered by an enhance filter which leads to strange colored artifacts everywhere, and the levels become difficult to navigate because of all the visual clutter.

The map design seems pretty poor - there are weird, abstract shapes and constructs in the first level which I guess is supposed to take place underwater. I started the level underwater, then walked into not-water. Then back into water. This is incredibly strange.

There is also very little manuevrability - there's a lot of crouching through tiny spaces, being crushed by claustrophobic corridors, squeezing oneself past decorations and objects that seem to be there purely to be in the way or heavily distracting, and navigating strange rocky formations that make exploring the maps a real bitch.

Also um what the hell is going on here. The two (incredibly misaligned) posters on the right scroll - the one on the left does not. LOGIC.

The doors I've encountered so far have been incredibly awkward. The first one you have to open (in MAP02) has no delay. The door opens super-fast then closes immediately. Why?? Then I couldn't even get through this one without crouching (also note the missing texture bug above the opening). Then suddenly the screen went blue as if I was underwater, then I drowned. WTF? Playtesting.

The "diving mode" thing was confusing as well - I had to manually reselect it when I re-entered that underwater section in MAP02. Which I might add was through a secret door from an above-water section. Again, strange. This isn't how water works.

Given that MAP03 features multiple enemies that can kill you in a less than a few seconds, I would strongly recommend putting the first weapon (the pistol) in MAP02 in a location that isn't optional, to guarantee the player actually gets the weapon (with ammo, please - why give the player a weapon but no ammo for it), so when he enters MAP03, it isn't an absolute nightmare. (You can enter that map on very low health if you've taken damage from being underwater too long, or that first zombie nurse has done a lot of damage. And they take a lot of killing with the little weaponry you have to begin with.)

An important thing to bear in mind to the player is conveying what's what, and the conveyance of this mod is all over the place. Powerups have "health", "weapon", and "ammo" in big green text floating above them, but the switch textures aren't clear at all - in fact, in the first level you have to hit three switches, one of which looks completely different to the rest of them. Telling when you're underwater is not easy, because the blue screen fade you might usually use has only been used in one sector so far.

I also don't understand the abundance of female models on the textures. Why does this exist, and what is this? A gigantic pin-up calendar? In the entrance to an underwater base?

I, um, yeah... I don't get this at all. Sorry.
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby EinhanderZwei » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:40 am

Alright folks, first things first...

I have just released the OCEAN Demo 1.1! As I've promised, I have addressed some of the more annoying bugs, as well as optimized a lot of things ;)

The download links can be found here: http://e-u-l-mk2.blogspot.com/2014/06/o ... eased.html

For your convenience, reprinting the changelog:

* Reduced the number of startup error messages;
* Moved around the hints and opening credits;
* Reduced the number of necessary files;
* Weakened the nurses - now their attack are less frequent and slightly less damaging;
* Fixed one of the ceiling textures in Hypothermia, as well as one mapping issue (now there's an ability to crawl back rom the conference room);
* No more chainsaw puffs in diving mode;
* Fixed a minor GUI issue on MAP01;
* Recompressed some of the textures to JPG.

Now, onto your feedbacks :)

Cage wrote:I know :) Thought that the term deep space means also a low, deep water level but guess not, lol. Guess "the deep" is more proper ;)


Hehe, I also prefer 'the Abyss', because that movie's influence is hopefully noticeable, too :D

Cage wrote:One more thing: If you want to make it somewhat realistic, think about any safety precautions this kind of facility would need - construction wise, maybe some kind of airlocks in maps (to seal of areas in case of breach)


Yep, I actually did put some things like that in, but I guess it needs more :) By the way, that actually is the plot explanation to awkward doors here and there. The idea is that they are supposed to be sealed by default, but once you reach them, they get temporarily 'unsea'ed just so that you can progress - this is openly referenced and shown in MAP06 'Marina' :)

Jimmy wrote:Okay, I apologize in advance for being brutal, but I really am not terribly impressed so far.


It's okay, as long as your criticism is constructive. And besides, since that's my first 'serious' wad, there's a lot of wisdom I have yet to absorb ;)

Jimmy wrote:For one thing, holy shit that's a lot of texture errors when you first load it up. Took about a minute for the game to get going because of all those.


Yup, fixed in Demo 1.1!

Jimmy wrote:The textures that are there have been butchered by an enhance filter which leads to strange colored artifacts everywhere, and the levels become difficult to navigate because of all the visual clutter.


As stated above, that I'll fix, too!

Jimmy wrote:The map design seems pretty poor - there are weird, abstract shapes and constructs in the first level which I guess is supposed to take place underwater. I started the level underwater, then walked into not-water. Then back into water. This is incredibly strange.


Ummm... that's a weird screenshot; there supposed to be FadeSetters and stuff around, so it actually looks underwater :O Please make sure you're using GZDoom!

Jimmy wrote:There is also very little manuevrability - there's a lot of crouching through tiny spaces, being crushed by claustrophobic corridors, squeezing oneself past decorations and objects that seem to be there purely to be in the way or heavily distracting, and navigating strange rocky formations that make exploring the maps a real bitch.


Well, to be 100% honest, that was part of the idea - to make the player feel uncomfortable AND to make the maps exploration a real bitch. Just keep in mind that I'm not trying to replicate the look, feel and pace of DOOM here; I'm trying to make it closer to System Shock 1-2, and we all know how notable they were for deliberately asphyxiating map designs

Jimmy wrote:Also um what the hell is going on here. The two (incredibly misaligned) posters on the right scroll - the one on the left does not. LOGIC.


This is supposed to be a broken and glitchy monitor screen. But alright, I'll sure make it look more like one :)

Jimmy wrote:The doors I've encountered so far have been incredibly awkward. The first one you have to open (in MAP02) has no delay. The door opens super-fast then closes immediately. Why??


Yes, it was a deliberate design choice. The idea is that they are permanently sealed, but a terrorist attack (the guys you meet at MAP05) has damaged the control systems, resulting in glitchy door behavior.

Jimmy wrote:Then I couldn't even get through this one without crouching (also note the missing texture bug above the opening). Then suddenly the screen went blue as if I was underwater, then I drowned. WTF? Playtesting.


Now those are good catches! Thank you, I'll see what I can do about all these points :)

Jimmy wrote:The "diving mode" thing was confusing as well - I had to manually reselect it when I re-entered that underwater section in MAP02. Which I might add was through a secret door from an above-water section. Again, strange. This isn't how water works.


Well, the need to reselect it is explained by a hint right before the hazardous section, so... But as for the secret door, I'll fix that for sure!

Jimmy wrote:Given that MAP03 features multiple enemies that can kill you in a less than a few seconds, I would strongly recommend putting the first weapon (the pistol) in MAP02 in a location that isn't optional, to guarantee the player actually gets the weapon


I'll think about it... the idea was to encourage the stealth approach as opposed to brute force, and that's why MAP03 features several traps you can trigger instead of engaging the enemies directly - think Die Hard instead of DOOM here :)

Jimmy wrote:(with ammo, please - why give the player a weapon but no ammo for it)


That's another deliberate design choice, to give it the 'survival horror'-like feeling of unsafety

Jimmy wrote:Powerups have "health", "weapon", and "ammo" in big green text floating above them, but the switch textures aren't clear at all - in fact, in the first level you have to hit three switches, one of which looks completely different to the rest of them.


That's a good catch - I'll definitely rework this and retexture the switches!

Jimmy wrote:Telling when you're underwater is not easy, because the blue screen fade you might usually use has only been used in one sector so far.


I swear, the fade is used wherever it should be, so I guess it has something to do with your source port and/or settings :( You can try opening the maps in Doom Builder for proof :(

Jimmy wrote:I also don't understand the abundance of female models on the textures. Why does this exist, and what is this? A gigantic pin-up calendar? In the entrance to an underwater base?


Ah yes, this is sort-of-a-product-placement (person placement?) for Doncella Suicide :) And besides, this is not supposed to be a base. It's a science lab that was run over by an eccentric manager (who you will interact with in the full game) who just felt the need to resort to posters like this in order to promote her ecological enterprises. To put it short, it will be explained in the story :)

Jimmy wrote:I, um, yeah... I don't get this at all. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPOb3DlB7WA :D
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Ed the Bat » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:50 am

I just got ahold of v1.1 (I'd been a bit distracted...) to finally give it a try. Right away, I have a pretty serious bug to report. After a while I started noticing bulletpuffs in my face with no injuries, and it dawned on me that I was invulnerable. So I checked the DECORATE and ACS. Apparently, when I was following the instructions to protect myself in Diving Mode, having it taken away from me meant the A_UnSetReflectiveInvulnerable frame in its Ready state was never called, and I've been stuck with invulnerability for the entire adventure.
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby EinhanderZwei » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:10 am

Ed the Bat wrote:I just got ahold of v1.1 (I'd been a bit distracted...) to finally give it a try. Right away, I have a pretty serious bug to report. After a while I started noticing bulletpuffs in my face with no injuries, and it dawned on me that I was invulnerable. So I checked the DECORATE and ACS. Apparently, when I was following the instructions to protect myself in Diving Mode, having it taken away from me meant the A_UnSetReflectiveInvulnerable frame in its Ready state was never called, and I've been stuck with invulnerability for the entire adventure.

Oh my, I see... this bug has been reported before, but the person couldn't figure out the replication steps, so all they have sent me was a savegame with this invulnerability glitch already in effect. Thank you so much, I'll take a look and fix it for 1.3!

BTW, recently I have released Demo 1.2 - it fixes a lot of other things (not counting this one, obviously), so you (and everyone) might want to check it out: http://oceanhub.wikia.com/wiki/OCEAN_De ... N_Demo_1.2
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Re: Ocean (aka OCEAN, Ocean 2024)

Postby Ed the Bat » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:12 am

Excellent. I look forward to continued development.
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