Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

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Are retro shooters here to stay or are they a bubble?

They are a new market that is here to stay
23
64%
They are a fad and people will get sick of them
13
36%
 
Total votes : 36

Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:10 pm

Dusk, Admist Evil, Iron maiden, and Hellbound are just recent examples of a growing retro shooter trend. But is this something that will actually last or this this merely a fad and a bubble that will burst once people get sick of playing generic Doom/Quake clones with low poly graphics and mediocre level design?

Do you think retro shooters are here to stay or are they just a bubble waiting to explode?
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Bigger C » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 pm

I think you're inflating (HAR!) the actual market by calling it a bubble. I think it will maintain a certain steady nichedom, though never so big as to have a real "bubble".
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Rachael » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:19 pm

I think what it really is, is people are just sick of the billions upon billions upon billions Call of Duty clones. And having played Ion Maiden myself, I can tell you that the level design is anything but mediocre. In fact, it's even more playable than Doom.

I think the industry is eventually going to catch on to this trend - and when they do, obviously they're going to milk it for every drop that it's worth. And when they do, it's going to be an utter shitshow for a decade until they realize they just don't have what it takes to make a lasting good game.

Sorry, but your "mediocre level design" (actually, quite terrible and intentionally so) is quite prolific in these so-called "triple-A" games. Beautiful? Sure. Memorable? Definitely. Playable? Barely, if even.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Bigger C » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:32 pm

Does Insurgency count as AAA?

(Also, for what it's worth, Rainbow Six Siege was turning around...And recently pooped itself again, on top of its nasty community and high skill gate.)
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Matt » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:40 pm

I'm just waiting for a few years when the following make a comeback per the 20-year cycle rule:

- beautiful, haunting, surreal castles-and-rayguns settings (Unreal)
- genuine realism shooters that intentionally avoid any Hollywood compromise in their gameplay (Operation Flashpoint)
- Dance Dance Revolution
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Bigger C » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:45 pm

Someone please combine all three of those things. I will pay you money.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Marisa Kirisame » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:45 pm

I wouldn't call it a "market", really.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:53 pm

The mere fact that these things find a modern audience tells us in very clear terms that there is something wrong with so-called AAA titles.
Where it will develop is hard to tell, though, because good game design completely flies in the face of how the big studios design their product to ensure that the customers don't get attached to it too much and quickly buy the next game, just as quickly forgotten as the last one. They simply cannot afford to make a GOOD game because that might jeopardize their entire business foundation.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:17 pm

Rachael wrote: And having played Ion Maiden myself, I can tell you that the level design is anything but mediocre. In fact, it's even more playable than Doom.


Well ok Ion Maiden has good design but it's the exception to the rule. And it's not even really a indie game anyway since 3D realms is making it.

If you want an example of what I mean by bad level design, then go look at Dusk and then compare it to Arcane Dimensions for Quake.

Graf Zahl wrote:The mere fact that these things find a modern audience tells us in very clear terms that there is something wrong with so-called AAA titles.
Where it will develop is hard to tell, though, because good game design completely flies in the face of how the big studios design their product to ensure that the customers don't get attached to it too much and quickly buy the next game, just as quickly forgotten as the last one. They simply cannot afford to make a GOOD game because that might jeopardize their entire business foundation.


The biggest problem I have with modern shooters is that most of them care about about making the player FEEL good rather than actually force him to become good. They do this to maximize the size of the player base. This is what people mean when they complain about CoD kids ruining gaming. Why do you think enemy fps AI is barely any better today than 20 years ago? It's because better AI=tougher gameplay which means more kids complaining about how "unfair" the game is.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Bigger C » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:27 pm

hardcore_gamer wrote:If you want an example of what I mean by bad level design, then go look at Dusk and then compare it to Arcane Dimensions for Quake.


How far in the game did you get? :U
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:18 pm

Bigger C wrote:
hardcore_gamer wrote:If you want an example of what I mean by bad level design, then go look at Dusk and then compare it to Arcane Dimensions for Quake.


How far in the game did you get? :U


3 or 4 at which point I refunded the game before I would pass the 3 hour limit that prevents you from refunding it. And this is a lame excuse anyway since good games don't expect you to slog through bad content before getting to the good parts.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Bigger C » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:19 pm

Suit yourself!
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Naniyue » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:13 pm

Retro or retro style shooters will never completely go away. They are part of the video game backbone, with too much innovation and history to recount in short.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Kinsie » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Rachael wrote:I think the industry is eventually going to catch on to this trend - and when they do, obviously they're going to milk it for every drop that it's worth.
The belief I got from industry people (admittedly a good few years ago) is that this is largely a self-satisfying market where people are more or less happy enough with free mods to not be interested in commercial attempts to wedge themselves into the turf.

While they may not have been completely on the money there, they may have a point in that Retro Style FPS Games are a pretty niche genre - looking at SteamSpy, Dusk has sold roughly half the units of, to use a completely loaded example, Fire Pro World, a niche sprite-based Japanese pro-wrestling simulation on a platform that Japanese users generally ignore. In addition, the world at large seems pretty uninterested in the return of retro FPS multiplayer - Quake Champions has mostly flopped, and that had the advantage of not being an indie multiplayer game, whose communities generally tend to die the weekend after launch.

Long story short, I doubt you'll see much in the way of big-budget attempts at this little subgenre. The potential returns aren't great enough for anyone outside of small indie teams living off of ramen and an unhealthy work/life balance. Of course, the lessons learned from these smaller-scale games may filter up to the big leagues, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Graf Zahl wrote:Where it will develop is hard to tell, though, because good game design completely flies in the face of how the big studios design their product to ensure that the customers don't get attached to it too much and quickly buy the next game, just as quickly forgotten as the last one. They simply cannot afford to make a GOOD game because that might jeopardize their entire business foundation.
Maybe in the mobile wastelands. The new hotness is releasing a game, then supporting it with DLC/microtransactions/eSports/whatever for the next 5-10 years to make the same amount of money as a new game while spending way less... a trick that rarely works if the base game isn't, you know, at least average.
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Re: Are retro shooters a growing market or merely a fad?

Postby Naniyue » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:42 pm

Aww jeez. I was thinking shooter as in shmup! Sorry about that!
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