[KDiZD] Community Information Thread (Update Page 18)

[razor]

I'm just curious (genuinely!) to know why many of the people who believe that hyping your project is not allowed, deem maligning another team's project and even personally insulting the team members to be permissable. To me, not being allowed to engage in the former seems to suggest not being allowed to engage in the latter as well.

Show me a forum where this doesn't happen in some form

[Risen]

...And when you replied to critics almost exclusively by telling them that you know best because you got Nick and Risen on your team. That only distance you further from the average forum retard. Except here of course where "praise the whatever" is a common occurance.

Interesting. While I have certainly been around longer than most, I don't think I'm any sort of master at this. And not once to my knowledge has a "praise the whatever" comment been directed at me. I don't even know what the "whatever" would be filled in as. I'm not really sure what I do "best." At any rate, you're correct in that it's a stupid argument to have made. But then, so are all of them. It's a damn mod for a really old game. If you take it that seriously, there's bigger issues that should be dealt with.

Then there's the facts of the project aswell. Everyone seem to be focused to make the maps as big and detailed as possible. For some reason you seem to have as an important goal to have a bigger filesize, sector count and linedef count than RTC-3057. IMO that's just bloatware.

That was never my aim, though it did indeed appear to be the aim of others.

Action Doom offered something new along with great new designs and graphics, I don't consider KDIZD to do that. Atleast not from what I've seen so far.

It doesn't. But that doesn't mean it won't be fun.

[Phobus]

Risen:

PRAISE THE JETPACK MAKER!!!! (courtesy of ZDCMP2)



Thread current topic: Remember though, that all of this project flaming and stuff comes because you can't please everyone, and they like to make themselves vocal. In the end many people are gonig to love KDiZD, but others will not be able to stand it. The hyping campaign was very queationable and, whilst it was very funny, it came in too early and came across (in a couple of them) as 'We own Id, you and everybody with this project", even if that wasn't the intent.

[Risen]

Heh... thanks, Phobus.

I think nearly everyone is in agreement with the second part of that.

[Nmn]

I totally disagree. It's one of the few projects that I've played through more than once. And that's equal to me giving it a gold star. (...)

I think You should go out more often and not care about such stuff (a mod for an 11 year old game). At least not in such a scrutiny.

EDIT: I'm not saying this in defense of kdizd, on which I work no more, but as a neutral observator.

[NiGHTMARE]

'We own Id, you and everybody with this project", even if that wasn't the intent.

I've seen people make comments like "many modern maps are far superior to ID's originals" literally dozens of times in the past, but I've never seen anyone getting flamed for saying it - in fact, the majority of people usually agree.

I also don't understand why, if it's normally perfectly acceptable to say someone is a highly talented mapper and every map he makes is absolutely amazing, that this right is revoked if that person happens to be working on the same project as you are.

[Phobus]

I never have encountered the problem in your last paragraph, so I can't really comment on this myself.

I am aware that Id's original maps are outdatd and outdone many times, but it sounds wrong when you (the mapper/mapping team) are the ones claiming they'll best Id, it sounds very big-headed.

[NiGHTMARE]

Since the majority of the currently active Doom mappers can and regularly do best ID, I don't think it sounds big-headed at all. In fact, it's a pretty trivial task nowadays, and I'd be rather worried if a mapping team said they *couldn't* best ID.

[Kristus]

I think You should go out more often and not care about such stuff (a mod for an 11 year old game). At least not in such a scrutiny. :P

I don't follow. Exactly what shouldn't I care about? I don't see myself wasting time caring about Action Doom just because I've felt like playing it through more than one time. And saying I disagree when someone says it's not good, hardly takes up more of my time than the two seconds it took me to write it. And considering I am only home about 3 hours a day these days (excluding sleep), I really don't feel like goin out more.

Risen: I really wasn't directing that towards you, as it was more towards Nick and Tormentor. Since it was them that were making those comments (IIRC). I don't really recall you saying anything about it at all really.

EDIT:
Nick: I was just playing Doom3 again today, and IMO the leveldesign in that game is so good that you'd had to be some kind of megalomaniac to take for granted that you could best id. (ok, slight exaggeration I know.. :p ) When I design maps, I always do my best to best my role-models. Like id and Cyan, and I never consider myself as being successful.

[Phobus]

@NiGHTMARE: You are right, many mappers could best Id, though many of those can't produce the same sort of feeling one got when first playing an Id map. There's aspects of it that some people may never get.

I'm not trying to get into this argument/debate to much, but I'll just say that my point was not many people outright say:

"We'll beat Id no sweat with this one"

They usually leave that to critics (speaking of which, I envy the newstuff rater who gets KDiZD, though passing judgement will be hard, due to the flames) and feel smug when they read:

"%o did a phenominal job with this one, in fact, Id probably wish they'd known them when they were making Doom." or something to that tone.

[NiGHTMARE]

Nick: I was just playing Doom3 again today, and IMO the leveldesign in that game is so good that you'd had to be some kind of megalomaniac to take for granted that you could best id. (ok, slight exaggeration I know.. ) When I design maps, I always do my best to best my role-models. Like id and Cyan, and I never consider myself as being successful.

Ah, but I'm talking about the Doom 1/2-era ID, not the Doom 3-era ID. Not many of the former are left at the company nowadays - none of the Doom 1 mappers are still there, and only one of the Doom 2 mappers .

[Kristus]

Well, if you're going to play it like that, then I can say that I am much much better leveldesigner than you (were when you started).

[NiGHTMARE]

What we said was that we were going to make the original levels better, so you could say is that you could take my early levels and improve them. Almost anyone could say that, and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Risen]

Risen: I really wasn't directing that towards you, as it was more towards Nick and Tormentor. Since it was them that were making those comments (IIRC). I don't really recall you saying anything about it at all really.

Oh, I know. I tend to stay out of all that useless time-consuming "discussion" that ultimately accomplishes nothing.

I just found it interesting that being attached to this project instantly gave me a certain status in some groups. Some incredibly positive, some incredibly negative. Neither status I believe I deserve.

But who cares, anyway? I'm just here for fun.

[Enjay]

I'm just here for fun.

Hopefully we all are. It's just that some people seem to loose sight of that every now and again. An awful lot of the stuff that has been "said" recently is far too serious/personal/nasty for something that is supposed to be fun.