DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.2a - Your eardrums should be safe now)

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dawnbreez
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.1.7a - Minor HUD stuff)

Post by dawnbreez »

Darkbeetlebot wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:49 am So, if you weren't aware, there actually is a variant of the BFG9K that uses what is essentially an explosive projectile. I picked it up in my last playthrough and it does INSANE damage. And while I like the first couple ideas, I would prefer if an infinite ammo weapon were a bit stranger, like that one cryo blaster from Combined Arms. Though if there is a cryo weapon, it should also deal like 1 normal damage just so it can break the frozen monsters it makes.
That's an idea, yeah. I considered a magnum or machine-pistol alternate for the pistol, but like...basically anything you do to the pistol is going to end up sitting weird next to the pistol, mostly because the pistol's role in the arsenal is really just "something to hold you over until you pick up a shotgun". It's why I suggested buffing the pistol's damage alongside adding the Blaster, since if you don't do anything to the pistol, an infinite-ammo version is a straight upgrade.
Slug Rifle is something I recommended as a modification for the regular shotgun, but it being its own weapon could also be a thing. Personally, I think it would be better as a legendary affix or as a quality of the regular shotgun. Dragon shot I feel is too similar to the SSG when there could just be an affix that gives ripper shots to the guns. The zipguns, while cool, kind of intrude on the chaingun which is already just barely viable enough to keep up with the SMG's efficiency and ease of use. I fear they may just become the best bullet weapon if they existed. Grenade launcher and railgun though? Agreed, I'd love to see those. Perhaps the railgun could also be a rail-sniper.
Making slugs an affix for the regular shotgun would work, especially since I figured it would be an alternate shotgun--that is, you can't carry the single-barrel and slug rifle at the same time. Honestly, the single-barrel shotgun suffers from a similar problem to the pistol--the SSG is almost always more ammo efficient than it, and switching to the regular shotty is almost not worth it against smaller enemies. Re: the zipguns, I figure they'd have even wilder spread than the chaingun--and I also figured this would be implemented alongside the chaingun rework I suggested. The primary issue with the chaingun right now is that it's trying to be the SSG to the submachine gun's regular SG--but the windup just makes it too unwieldy, and bullets are often in shorter supply than shells to begin with; it takes four(!) clips dropped from zombies to fire as many bullets as there are in a vanilla SSG blast, and you get two vanilla SG blasts per dropped shotgun or set of shells. The CG ends up feeling more wasteful than it should be, which is why I suggest being able to tap-fire it more easily.
As for the other suggestions, I don't see the point of the speedsuit. Invisibility is way worse when you move because of how it can make enemies accidentally lead their shots into your line of movement, which means it could be even worse than security armor. The chaingun, though, I think something does need to be done to overhaul it. The way it currently works is just a way clunkier version of the OG brutal doom minigun. Making it function more like the one in Project Brutality (but less crazy) would be great. Hell, just an alt-fire spinup would be great. Not big on grenades, though. I never use them in any mod I play, and despite the lowered ammo supply you still pack plenty of heat in this mod. And if a grenade launcher is implemented, grenades become kind of redundant. I've also never seen anything like the ammo efficiency idea done before. I know it's kind of possible as a result of a bug due to how the double ammo dvar works with reloading mechanics. For those who don't know, using double ammo in a mod with reloading usually causes you to reload at twice the ammo efficiency. So if you have a shotgun that reloads per shell, with double ammo on, it will reload 2 shots per 1 shell from your reserve. It also works with clips, so reloading a clip of 30 bullets would only take 15 from your reserve. I don't know if it would be possible to alter this behavior on a per-weapon level, though.
Yeah, the speedsuit suffers from invisibility being kind of a shitty powerup overall...maybe instead of invis, it gives you temporary invulnerability when you're moving fast enough? Maybe moving quickly charges up invincibility against one hit, to keep it from being a complete get-out-of-jail-free card on larger maps...

Re: grenades, there's a reason I figured grenades would lean into applying status effects specifically. I want something like Diablo's spells, to give me more complex options than "point gun at enemy". A way to lock down specific enemies, stack DoTs on a big target, or spread a bunch of napalm for area denial--that's what I'm looking for. I hadn't played with the flask update until just now, but they're also heading in the direction of giving you more complex buttons than 'fire'. A grenade that just blows stuff up isn't really the point of adding grenades as a gear slot.

Re: ammo efficiency, it should be a fairly simple change to whatever functions are used for reloading. Instead of doing

Code: Select all

// after figuring out if there's enough reserve ammo
A_TakeInventory(ammotype1, magsize);
A_GiveInventory(ammotype2, magsize);
You would do:

Code: Select all

double takeamount = magsize * (1 - ammo_efficiency); // at ammo_efficiency = 0.5, results in magsize * 0.5; at ammo_efficiency = -0.5, magsize * 1.5
// ...
// figure out if there's enough reserve ammo
// ...
A_TakeInventory(ammotype1, takeamount);
A_GiveInventory(ammotype2, magsize);
This would normally have some problems with one-at-a-time reloads, but--conveniently--all of the reloading in Doomablo right now is mag-based!

Oh, and now that I've sat down to try the flasks...I feel like the obvious thing to do for a legendary bottle would be the Trusty Vault 13 Canteen with some kind of automatic use affix.
Darkbeetlebot
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.1.7a - Minor HUD stuff)

Post by Darkbeetlebot »

dawnbreez wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2025 7:04 pm
Re: grenades, there's a reason I figured grenades would lean into applying status effects specifically. I want something like Diablo's spells, to give me more complex options than "point gun at enemy". A way to lock down specific enemies, stack DoTs on a big target, or spread a bunch of napalm for area denial--that's what I'm looking for. I hadn't played with the flask update until just now, but they're also heading in the direction of giving you more complex buttons than 'fire'. A grenade that just blows stuff up isn't really the point of adding grenades as a gear slot.

Oh, and now that I've sat down to try the flasks...I feel like the obvious thing to do for a legendary bottle would be the Trusty Vault 13 Canteen with some kind of automatic use affix.
That just gave me a thought, actually: What if the potions could be grenades? As in, you can choose between having backup health options or additional offensive abilities. One would be good for if a wad is starving you of health, and the other would be good if it's starving you of ammo or there's just a lot of health lying around. Would also make grenade potions good for people who just never get hit because they're that good at dodging.
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dawnbreez
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.1a -Flasks are searching for their place in life)

Post by dawnbreez »

Merging pots and grenades into a single "active item" slot could be neat, yeah. IMO, it would work best if you had two slots, a la Dead Cells--then you can choose to focus entirely on having multiple healing options, on having tons of burst damage, or you can have one healing item and one offensive item. However, I don't know how you'd handle it UI-wise; right now every item occupies an exclusive slot, so there's nothing in place for being able to choose which of two items you want to replace.

I'd still want the flechette potions to be status-effect centric, or to have weird effects. Paladin's flechette potion from Hexen would be an obvious pick, in fact. Maybe the ROTT Firewall could be a legendary affix...
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MsrSgtShooterPerson
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.1a -Flasks are searching for their place in life)

Post by MsrSgtShooterPerson »

Hey sidav, Doomablo has been pretty great so far, every addition so far has been interesting and it quickly feels like a full mod than ever before. :D

I had this idea that crossed my mind while I was playing - elemental damage. BUT WAIT! I understand you could have added this way before and honestly avoided it - because seriously? What's the point of adding differently colored damage that does nothing different from each other? I totally agree with that.

However, since we're referencing PoE 2 (which in turn is referencing Diablo 2), I think having elemental damage systems can be a precursor to something truly interesting (and something that PoE 2 hasn't done quite well...).

Monsters with elemental resistances and immunities! In Diablo 2, I recall that in higher difficulties enemies will eventually have significant resistances and eventually even immunities forcing you to swap weapons. I think that might be an interesting mechanic to have especially when you reach the latter half of the level scale for Doomablo. To make things consistent of course, I don't exactly recommend monsters having completely random and bizzare resistances to the other - for example, a species in one level could be filled with X-immune monsters that are weak to the opposite element. Even PoE 2 doesn't do this quite well, making elemental systems seriously... arbitrary. (because I too am quite tired of lightning/MoM/Cl or the fact that lightning is just too overpowered and overscaling compared to other elements in the endgame lol)

To make it more balanced, perhaps we can follow the "Converts % damage to <element>" as opposed to merely "Adds # <element> damage" though perhaps we can have that too (becoming more prominent towards higher levels to meet up with building-up of enemy resistances).

This also opens up a second avenue, something PoE 2 actually does quite well (at least until the endgame where it doesn't scale anymore...) - priming and payoff weapons. :D For example, if you 'chill' an enemy with a cold damage weapon, switch to another weapon with an attribute like "Vaporizing Round: Chilled monsters explode when killed for 100% of overkill damage." Or kill a 'shocked' enemy with a weapon with an attribute like "Conduction Round: Shocked monsters cast chain lightning for 200% of weapon damage, losing damage for each chain, chaining up to 3 times." (because while my spark sorc was the most rewarding, my original gemling with gas->oil->explosive grenades cycle was more fun)

What do you think? I feel this can open up even more interactions and synergies and especially hard choices on equipment. :D
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sidav
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.1a -Flasks are searching for their place in life)

Post by sidav »

Hi everyone. Guess who has suddenly stopped getting email subscription updates about this thread for whatever reason? Yep, that's me.
dawnbreez wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 6:43 pm Merging pots and grenades into a single "active item" slot could be neat, yeah.
Tbh, I'm actually considering it since I've been making the potions.
MsrSgtShooterPerson wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:27 pm Hey sidav, Doomablo has been pretty great so far, every addition so far has been interesting and it quickly feels like a full mod than ever before. :D
Hey and thanks!
MsrSgtShooterPerson wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:27 pm "Vaporizing Round: Chilled monsters explode when killed for 100% of overkill damage." Or kill a 'shocked' enemy with a weapon with an attribute like "Conduction Round: Shocked monsters cast chain lightning for 200% of weapon damage, losing damage for each chain, chaining up to 3 times." (because while my spark sorc was the most rewarding, my original gemling with gas->oil->explosive grenades cycle was more fun)
I was considering something like this for legendary weapons, as in "unique affixes". Something like a plasma rifle which can cast a chain lightning... But making it as a combo of various status effects is something I've not thought of. And it sounds interesting.
One thing about elemental resistances for the monsters is that it's quite hard to make it seem logical. For example, your monster pack can have ice monsters, but the "monster affixer" in my mod will give it fire resistance. That's silly. Maybe something "tech-like" would seem better instead? Radiation damage, biohazard damage, something like that.

I'm taking some time off with the mod for now. It's not a full stopping of development or something, I just need to take a break from the frequent "get home from work and then code the mod until it's sunrise" schedule, until my seriously messed up routine gets back on track. Don't wanna develop health problems. But I think I need to make some minor fixes and additions here and there first. Well, I hope I'll have the time for that this week.
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sidav
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.2a - Your eardrums should be safe now)

Post by sidav »

A new update is there. It brings some fixes and new content, but not much.
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dawnbreez
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.1a -Flasks are searching for their place in life)

Post by dawnbreez »

sidav wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 2:52 pm One thing about elemental resistances for the monsters is that it's quite hard to make it seem logical. For example, your monster pack can have ice monsters, but the "monster affixer" in my mod will give it fire resistance. That's silly. Maybe something "tech-like" would seem better instead? Radiation damage, biohazard damage, something like that.
I've already encountered Bleed, Burn, and Irradiated as status effects in affixes. I think what makes the most sense for this is maybe leaning into a Souls-esque status effect system, where--instead of a percentage chance to proc it--elemental affixes add a percentage of damage as status buildup, and monsters with 'resistance' to those status effects then take longer to actually trigger it.

I do really like the idea of elements having interactions with other elements, though...another direction you could take this in is Warframe-style element combos, where hitting a monster with more than one element means you get a totally new effect.

Spitballing some ideas...
  • Burn+Irradiate = Fallout -- The monster produces lingering clouds that damage other monsters periodically, lasting after the monster's death.
  • Burn+Bleed = Cauterize -- The remaining bleed and burn damage is dealt as one big chunk, possibly with a ~10% damage boost.
  • Bleed+Irradiate = Melt -- The monster starts 'melting', taking a percentage of its health as damage and suffering continuous pain.
  • Biohazard -- A spreading DoT. Ticks slower than other DoTs, but each time it ticks, it can jump to nearby monsters!
  • Biohazard+Irradiate = Cloudkill -- the Biohazard damage is now increased by the number of nearby monsters with Biohazard on them.
  • Biohazard+Bleed = Pandemic -- Biohazard now ticks as fast as bleed does!
  • Biohazard+Burn = Exploding Death -- if the target dies while this DoT is active, they explode.
Anyway, enjoy your break! I love that we're starting to see more people work on stuff like this; I love seeing people push the limits of the engine.

[EDIT] Just realized that making the SSG use a magazine size under the hood and have an extremely rapid firerate would mean that you could do the two-shot SSG thing, either by adjusting SSG stats such that the vanilla version is a two-shot, or by giving lategame SSGs the opportunity to drop with big magsize affixes...honestly, I might have to look into contributing to this mod.
Darkbeetlebot
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.2a - Your eardrums should be safe now)

Post by Darkbeetlebot »

I was playing this earlier today and had a thought: Why not add gun bonsai integration? Given this mod adds things like variable spread, reload speed, and mag sizes, those could be added to gun bonsai's weapon level up list as options. Also, I'd like to report a minor bug related to that: When picking up a new backpack in doomablo, the bonus to ammo reserves that gun bonsai's Bandolier upgrade gives will reset to 0 until the next time it's upgraded.
TristanH
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.2a - Your eardrums should be safe now)

Post by TristanH »

Doomablo is very chaotic in Colorful Hell+ but on the healthbars, it shows their names in a weird way. Are you able to fix it?
TristanH
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.2a - Your eardrums should be safe now)

Post by TristanH »

Darkbeetlebot wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 5:00 pm I was playing this earlier today and had a thought: Why not add gun bonsai integration? Given this mod adds things like variable spread, reload speed, and mag sizes, those could be added to gun bonsai's weapon level up list as options. Also, I'd like to report a minor bug related to that: When picking up a new backpack in doomablo, the bonus to ammo reserves that gun bonsai's Bandolier upgrade gives will reset to 0 until the next time it's upgraded.
Oh, and that too. I like that idea.
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sidav
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.2a - Your eardrums should be safe now)

Post by sidav »

Hello everyone. I'm so glad to see continuous interest in my mod!
Unfortunately, I'm here with some not so good news. I've started having serious health problems, exactly the ones I mentioned before as a reason for my "vacation". They will most likely be there for quite some time. I currently can't work whatsoever. So, unfortunately, it seems my vacation will take considerably more time than I expected.
I'll continue the work as soon as I'll be safely able to do it. Stay tuned!
Darkbeetlebot
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Re: DOOMablo: a looter-shooter DOOM (v0.2.2a - Your eardrums should be safe now)

Post by Darkbeetlebot »

sidav wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:45 am Hello everyone. I'm so glad to see continuous interest in my mod!
Unfortunately, I'm here with some not so good news. I've started having serious health problems, exactly the ones I mentioned before as a reason for my "vacation". They will most likely be there for quite some time. I currently can't work whatsoever. So, unfortunately, it seems my vacation will take considerably more time than I expected.
I'll continue the work as soon as I'll be safely able to do it. Stay tuned!
Take it easy, Sidav. I think you've thoroughly earned it.

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