Obligatory Legacy of Rust/ Nightdive Doom Port thread

[Xterra]

Would you care to elaborate?
What issues do you have with the port and the new episode? Just saying 'it sucks' is not really helpful.

Compared to GZDoom the port is extremely limited. Sure, it’s a good choice for the masses but I want a more customizable engine. What I noticed in technical concerns was an extreme mouse lag. I first thought it’s my system but a friend of mine had the same problem. The mod browser is terrible and not well-thought because people have absolutely no idea what they are downloading without community knowledge.

For Legacy of the Rust, I expected more for an official release than a mappack that feels straight out of the 80s. I don’t want to insult anyone with that opinion - I simply don’t like it, or maybe I expected more than that when I bought it (yes, I didn’t buy it on Steam before).

TBH, Torm, the Kex engine has never been made with modding in mind as far as I know, it's basically just a framework for remasters. Same basic stuff underpins the ports/remasters of ROTT, Dark Forces, Turoks 1, 2 and 3, Quakes 1 and 2, System Shock, Doom 64, Powerslave/Exhumed, Blood, and God knows what else.

[Jibboo]

I played Legacy of Rust on the Nintendo Switch without docking it to the tv because I broke it, and it won't work. It's taxing on my neck cause I can't find a spot and position to place the little screen to where I can have my neck straight and/or laying. I've only played up the level 3 because of it.

The wad itself is pretty alright, I think I expected more or something for being "official" but that's my fault right, idk. I'm actually typing this off the cuff right now.

I've seen videos of the weapons:

I wish the flamethrower actually had a chain-reaction immolation ability, because otherwise it's just the plasma gun and so it's not really a new weapon. Also, a missed opportunity for interesting level design because of it.

Calamity Blade is pretty cool, but the sprite for it is obviously still in an unfinished state, and they should've painted over it more.

====================================================================other things

The Cacodemons in Sanguine Wastes floated off to this one spot like a flock of vultures and weren't attacking me for some reason.

The wad being official is kind of random.

The midis are pretty cool.

In terms of Doom+Doom II overall, it's pretty cool, Id Vault's cool, but there is some issues. I had it crash once so far. I sense some oddities with the audio.

[Tormentor667]

TBH, Torm, the Kex engine has never been made with modding in mind as far as I know, it's basically just a framework for remasters. Same basic stuff underpins the ports/remasters of ROTT, Dark Forces, Turoks 1, 2 and 3, Quakes 1 and 2, System Shock, Doom 64, Powerslave/Exhumed, Blood, and God knows what else.

It's not about the modding features but the experience as a player. But to be honest, I wasn't a big fan of the Dark Forces remaster either - it didn't feel very polished (the german localization was horrible). Still - I like what Nightdive is generally doing with their remasters, bringing the old games to a new generation. For Doom maybe I have different glasses that make my opinion very biased.

I believe this can be fixed by using exclusive fullscreen + disabling vsync, give it a try and see it if works for you (appears to be a bit different depending on the machine).

I tried this, it did improve the lag but still it wasn't as I am used to it in other games (or in GZDoom). Still a slight delay between my mouse movement and the movement ingame.

[Dynamo]

I have to admit I've never really been a person to notice mouse lag too much (except for DOS Shadow Warrior, that was really bad), but then again virtually everyone I've ever talked to says GZDoom and Raze have some of the best mouse input in any source port for any game out there so that checks out

[Xterra]

TBH, Torm, the Kex engine has never been made with modding in mind as far as I know, it's basically just a framework for remasters. Same basic stuff underpins the ports/remasters of ROTT, Dark Forces, Turoks 1, 2 and 3, Quakes 1 and 2, System Shock, Doom 64, Powerslave/Exhumed, Blood, and God knows what else.

It's not about the modding features but the experience as a player. But to be honest, I wasn't a big fan of the Dark Forces remaster either - it didn't feel very polished (the german localization was horrible). Still - I like what Nightdive is generally doing with their remasters, bringing the old games to a new generation. For Doom maybe I have different glasses that make my opinion very biased.

Yeah...I have to agree on the DF remaster. It...doesn't feel too terribly good to play, though that may just be down to me not liking the weapons and movement tech.

[Nash]

I can confirm input lag is replicable on several PCs I have with all differing hardware. I got Freesync monitors and nvidia Gsync enabled in all these systems.

The "solution" was to set the renderer to Direct3D 11 and turn off vsync.

[Xterra]

...I hope that an update that *isn't* QuakeCon-rushed is in the works.

[yum13241]

Another thing that's just dumb for a supposedly forward looking spec is the dependency on some of Boom's worst features, namely COLORMAP and TRANMAP instead of going the extra route and implementing both features properly.

Sorry, I never used Boom. Why are those so bad anyway? And isn't COLORMAP part of DOOM.WAD anyway?

[Phredreeke]

My experience of both Dark Forces and the new Doom port on Nintendo Switch is that they play fine, with the latter controlling better than the old Unity port did.
On PC I haven't tested it, I didn't feel the need to given that there are countless Doom ports already available.

I think the response (not here but elsewhere) is kinda overblown. Bethesda isn't putting the genie back in the bottle.

[Xterra]

...
I think the response (not here but elsewhere) is kinda overblown. Bethesda isn't putting the genie back in the bottle.

The main negativity I'm seeing is from the engine devs (Graf, Rachel, dpJudas et al.), not towards LoR itself (which apart from Torm's [justifiable] dislike of it, the general vibe is "Meh, it's a'ight"), but more towards a new mod standard loosely coupled with it called "ID24", which...at its core uses the deeply outdated DeHackEd as its code-modification base (to allow for things like custom decorations, new monsters, weapons, ambient sounds, what have ya). To say that the standard's infuriating, overbroad, rushed and half-baked is an understatement-- and this is coming from somebody VERY MUCH on the outside.

It's probably not gonna see wide adoption in sourceports (GZ, EDGE/3DGE Eternity, Zandro, Crispy, etc.) unless the people behind it manage to polish the proverbial turd enough to where implementation of it *doesn't* make engine devs want to tear their hair out.

[Rachael]

The main negativity I'm seeing is from the engine devs (Graf, Rachel, dpJudas et al.), not towards LoR itself (which apart from Torm's [justifiable] dislike of it, the general vibe is "Meh, it's a'ight"), but more towards a new mod standard loosely coupled with it called "ID24", which...at its core uses the deeply outdated DeHackEd as its code-modification base (to allow for things like custom decorations, new monsters, weapons, ambient sounds, what have ya). To say that the standard's infuriating, overbroad, rushed and half-baked is an understatement-- and this is coming from somebody VERY MUCH on the outside.

That is only here though. Apparently on Doomworld it was a bit of a different story. I didn't pay attention to the Doomworld thread, the things I've been hearing is mostly it was a ton of posts about "Corporation evil" and a lot of shit-flinging and if that's true then obviously none of those particular posts were the least bit constructive and ultimately did not help anyone's cause, just a bunch of bruised noses and egos and unnecessary hatred towards one another, which unfortunately is a bit par for the course for that place sometimes.

[dpJudas]

Keep in mind that my viewpoint comes from someone that doesn't really work on this kind of thing in the engine. What I think doesn't really matter much beyond PR merge policies (for vkdoom) as I never intended personally to code support anyway. That's why my response can feel like a 'meh' since its the truth: I don't really care what id24 says.

[Xterra]

That is only here though. Apparently on Doomworld it was a bit of a different story. I didn't pay attention to the Doomworld thread, the things I've been hearing is mostly it was a ton of posts about "Corporation evil" and a lot of shit-flinging and if that's true then obviously none of those particular posts were the least bit constructive and ultimately did not help anyone's cause, just a bunch of bruised noses and egos and unnecessary hatred towards one another, which unfortunately is a bit par for the course for that place sometimes.

Yeah, I don't hang around Doomworld, so I was unaware of that; like you said, though, DW's infamous for that stuff and some old "vanilla über alles" hardliners who think that the jump key is an abomination upon God and man. I'm as much of a corporation-hater as the next guy, but there's no reason to sling insults and other such horseshit around. It's a waste of time, breath and keystrokes.

To be brutally honest, the ZDF can get that bad as well, but I'm not gonna reopen old wounds; the tone's been one of measured but mixed response, and far more constructive/discussive overall. Most vehement I've seen (in this thread) was Torm, and he's clearly not trying to be a cocksore about anything relating to it.

Keep in mind that my viewpoint comes from someone that doesn't really work on this kind of thing in the engine. What I think doesn't really matter much beyond PR merge policies (for vkdoom) as I never intended personally to code support anyway. That's why my response can feel like a 'meh' since its the truth: I don't really care what id24 says.

I appreciate the clarification, Judas. Thank you.

[Rachael]

I am no lover of corporations myself (as anyone who knows me will vehemently attest to), but I still always try to apply fairness in judgment towards anyone based solely on their actions and not who they are and how much I hate or love them. And to that end I certainly feel no loyalty towards Microsoft/Bethesda/id Software, but if they do something right I will always give them credit. And when it comes to supporting the modding community, Bethesda has quite often been really good about it, and id Software even more so.

id24 certainly is better than we could've expected out of an indie-turned-corporation studio such as id Software, and I definitely will give them credit for going to that length to support the community. It's not without its issues, obviously, though, and the standard itself does leave a small bit or two to be desired for sure, especially with its ambition and reach. Generally the KISS principle is the most successful - "keep it simple, stupid". While I am generally against any further extension of DEHACKED at all, keeping the extensions small and simple certainly would have made that much more palatable. And that pretty much goes for all the other bits as well.

But I will say one thing - there is a bit of hope that this standard will help the community ease out of the "vanilla or die" mindset. Something that is officially sanctioned and supported, even if it's not by the original Doom team (who have all long since moved on with their lives since the game's release at some point or other), might open the idea that not everything has to be 320x200x256, 137 objects, 138 sprite types, 967 sprite states, 129 line specials, or v1.9 demo conformity. That there is more to life than those very specific things that were all conceived of in under a year. Yeah - they're great - nobody's going to dispute that. It's just that when you limit yourself so much, you needlessly cage yourself in a way that does not allow growth or exploration, does not engage curiosity, and all of which keeps life bland and boring. It is quite evidenced by GZDoom's popularity alone, that many people already recognize this. And sure, there's a lot to be found when exploring within those limits too - I won't dispute that, either - but there's a lot more outside of them.

[yum13241]

137 objects, 138 sprite types, 967 sprite states, 129 line specials

Very concerning that you have all that memorized, are you sure you aren't a doom.exe addict? /s

But i will die on the hill that if id is going to reserve certain slots for themselves, they should make mod signing a thing. (preferably gpg)