Obligatory Legacy of Rust/ Nightdive Doom Port thread

[Rachael]

It was a free update on Steam and GOG...

Only if you bought Doom on those places.

Some people had it before it ever even came to Steam. Both legally and otherwise.

[Graf Zahl]

I've had all 3 games for 30 years, I never purchased it online.

[Dynamo]

I wonder who decided to make Legacy of Rust kinda official and package it with the original games… it’s absolutely not worth a single coin.

I believe it was this guy:



Not sure referring to the project in such terms was, then, the best angle you could've gone for, but hey.

[Rachael]

Xaser may have had a big hand in the project, but he definitely was not solely responsible for it. And that goes for both its subjective triumphs and subjective failures. And with the overall reception this has been getting you may have accidentally thrown him under the bus.

It definitely is more fair to judge a work on its value and how good you think it actually is, rather than who was behind it, in either case.

And I can definitely understand the argument of "don't judge a book by its cover" which is a perfectly valid case to bring here - but putting Xaser as a frontman to the project is not a great counter-argument to someone expressing their opinion on the project no matter how shallow it seemed to be.

[Dynamo]

I think Legacy of Rust itself is pretty good from what I've played of it (I've not gotten to the end yet), and the reception for it seems to have been broadly positive from most cornerns of the community - it hasn't been tied to the wad uploader or the id24 spec, for what it's worth. Plus, it nicely works in GZDoom out of the box. I don't think Tormentor meant to insult Xaser, or more specifically, I don't think he was aware of his involvement, as maybe he would have chosen to be a little more respectful towards a community member he, well, respects. Though I hope Xaser doesn't see what Torm did to Sector, or we'd have to use the "friendship with X ended" meme image.

Also, the Legacy of Rust soundtrack is pretty good too, and that was all Xaser unlike the maps. A very good addition to the map set!

[Gez]

Only if you bought Doom on those places.

Well, yes, obviously.

Some people had it before it ever even came to Steam. Both legally and otherwise.

I'm not too concerned about the otherwise category. I'm sure they'll acquire the new content otherwise as well. After all, it's just plain old wad files, there's no DRM in them.

[Xterra]

...so what I'm getting here in general vibes is "LoR is a'ight, it's nothing special" and "the ID24 standard is, as it sits, half-baked hogwash that's obsolete from day one".

Am I far off?

[Dynamo]

Well, I believe Graf has made his stance clear on why this is going to be difficult to implement and superfluous in parts, and I think that's legitimate. I guess another thing to point out is that it remains to be seen just how widespread mapping for this format will be, as that will also be a factor in motivating ports to support it or otherwise. I believe DSDHacked support, for example, never would have panned out the way it did if it hadn't been for Crusader initially, and then Eviternity 2. But hey, we'll see what the future holds, right? Speaking strictly as a mapper, my personal view is that I don't think there's any ID24 features I will personally make use of, but I can't speak for others.

[Rachael]

It probably would have been better if ID24 started in progressive steps, rather than "reaching too far" as it were. Make it a lot easier for port authors to keep up. Step 1 expand the DEHACKED functions available (preferably without the negative index stuff). Step 2 expand the linedef specials. Step 3 introduce one or two of the new special lumps. Step 4 more of the special lumps. Etc. Divide it into more palatable bite-sized chunks so that it doesn't seem like too much work for everyone who wants to keep up with it.

[Xterra]

I don't mean to throw anyone under the bus, though I recall somewhere that Kaiser really developed a dislike of ZDoom and its lineage at some point...considering he's as involved in this ID24 stuff as Xaser is (it's NightDive, it's the Kex engine...) the less-kind part of my mind wants to think this is Kaiser's "I'll make my own ZDoom, with blackjack and hookers!".

Don't get me wrong, I still deeply respect the both of them and all the others who worked on LoR and the Kex port...there's still that little part of my brain that's saying "...maybe it's MEANT to be difficult to add to (G)ZDoom?"...which I sincerely hope isn't the case but couldn't rule out completely. It also doesn't scan that Xaser would screw over anything ZDoom-related either, the dude cut his teeth with the engine like the rest of us did and he's IIRC still pretty damned respected here.

[Dynamo]

I don't think Kaiser had any involvement with ID24 whatsoever.

[Tormentor667]

Not sure referring to the project in such terms was, then, the best angle you could've gone for, but hey.

I don’t like Legacy of Rust, tried it and with the packed engine, it’s not worth the money in my eyes. There are better mappacks that would have been more worthy to be added to a an official release. And this opinion is neither disrespectful against Xaser nor does it change the way I see him as a member of the community. So stop trying to instigate a dispute, and bringing up the ZPack remaster just shows what a lazy attempt this is.

[Tormentor667]

Would you care to elaborate?
What issues do you have with the port and the new episode? Just saying 'it sucks' is not really helpful.

Compared to GZDoom the port is extremely limited. Sure, it’s a good choice for the masses but I want a more customizable engine. What I noticed in technical concerns was an extreme mouse lag. I first thought it’s my system but a friend of mine had the same problem. The mod browser is terrible and not well-thought because people have absolutely no idea what they are downloading without community knowledge.

For Legacy of the Rust, I expected more for an official release than a mappack that feels straight out of the 80s. I don’t want to insult anyone with that opinion - I simply don’t like it, or maybe I expected more than that when I bought it (yes, I didn’t buy it on Steam before).

[Dynamo]

What I noticed in technical concerns was an extreme mouse lag. I first thought it’s my system but a friend of mine had the same problem.

I believe this can be fixed by using exclusive fullscreen + disabling vsync, give it a try and see it if works for you (appears to be a bit different depending on the machine).

[ravage]

Compared to GZDoom the port is extremely limited. Sure, it’s a good choice for the masses but I want a more customizable engine. What I noticed in technical concerns was an extreme mouse lag. I first thought it’s my system but a friend of mine had the same problem. The mod browser is terrible and not well-thought because people have absolutely no idea what they are downloading without community knowledge.

This port was basically made for the masses. If you want something more customizable just use gzdoom.