Statement regarding Marisa the Magician (aka Marisa Kirisame)

[Accensus]

Let's see how it works out for the recipients of the award.

[Tapwave]

This is the Kinsie we've known for years. He's calmer than I've ever heard him being incensed about anything.

If your first step is going to try and menace someone you know whose sharp wit is going to difficult to respond to, you're doing exactly what you're being blamed for.

You have to face the music. Banning Kinsie for reacting honestly is just going to add to your case.

I don't exactly have any way to recover from my "case" and until people come in good faith with non-accusatory tones, and actually be willing to hear me out, there's nothing to discuss. This is the same Doom community bullshit that has become expected for years - find some fault in someone's doing - make a mountain out of a mole hill, and then put the rage mob onto someone and eat them alive. This is no different. I have nothing to say. Nothing I *can* say will "recover" my reputation. So why bother?

It's the same mob bullying that drives people to suicide, and you are a part of it. You only do it because you are bored and you love drama. And having a scapegoat. Congratulations, you have one.

We do not believe you have good faith left to spare. But you are free to talk and we will hear you out. Delaying it because "people aren't being respectful enough" means you will never get the tone you'll want. People -want- answers. People -want- you to say what you have to say. Instead, you came here and immediately started threatening people.

The mob built against you has been built over years of your actions. Nobody is going to coddle you. Nobody is going to take their time to sit down and be nice. This is you versus what you have built. It may be daunting, but this is something you have to face with dignity.

Or immediately try and break apart the character of those you talk to. This is a non-answer with a casual smear at the end. Not a proper response as the administrator of a board with a thousand of users that has to answer for their actions.

You are on a castle built on sand of your own making. Nobody's going to hand you buckets.

[Rachael]

Then we are done. I am not expecting to be coddled, but if all I am going to get is more accusations for everything I say, then what's the point? You want answers. You have one hell of a way to go about "getting" them, one that is tried and proven never to work. And then you expect me to break the "cycle"? I'm sorry, I have better things to do with my time. I'm certainly not going to coddle a bunch of people who have already dead-set in their minds that I am the evil person. You have an axe to grind? Go grind it. When you want to talk, I'll be here.

[DoomTheRobot]

You only do it because you are bored and you love drama. And having a scapegoat. Congratulations, you have one.

I'm posting this on behalf of Roasterock because his account is apparently inactive:

Without even commenting on the situation, I just watched you edit this post to add the quoted line and it didn't receive any kind of "last edited" flagging, observable across the entire board as something that happens when users edit their posts. When there is so much evidence that damns the staff here of attempting to conceal the truth and strongarm the people that go against their beliefs (not only referencing Marisa), and I WATCH them continue to attempt to rewrite history, no matter how small, it leaves me with little hope that you might see that it isn't normal.

[Caligari87]

That's seemingly a PHPBB default; moderators and admins can edit any post but adding an edit reason is optional. If left blank, no edit notification is shown. Good practice is to always give one, but for editing one's own post it often gets forgotten.

[Kinsie]

Kinsie I am only going to warn you once.

Calm the fuck down.

If you want to talk about this calmly and rationally, fine. If not, you know what happens next.

This is the Kinsie we've known for years. He's calmer than I've ever heard him being incensed about anything.

If your first step is going to try and menace someone you know whose sharp wit is going to difficult to respond to, you're doing exactly what you're being blamed for.

You have to face the music. Banning Kinsie for reacting honestly is just going to add to your case.

Censuring Kinsie for being uncivil while Candice throws off snarky schoolyard one-liners is emblematic of the problem, TBH.

Hypocritical much?

Please read the room. Things have to actually meaningfully change around here for people to feel comfortable again.

This is right. And I'm going to lay this bare because it hurts me.

I think I'm being misunderstood or misinterpreted, so I want to be as clear as I can - I am upset because my friends have been hurt, and my trust has been punctured, but I don't want blood, or vengeance, or whatever nonsense - I want change. Meaningful change.

Another forum I go to has been having a lot of similar issues as of late. Like, extremely as of late. Their latest situation started calming down literally just as this one started! Those situations sucked, but they have resulted in a lot of improvements - staffing changes were made, handling of major decisions like new admins and policy changes were made more open and with more regular-user involvement, rules were tweaked and adjusted where they were causing unnecessary friction, and so on. There is room in the wake of this terrible situation for positive change by analysing and openly discussing everything that went wrong, taking whatever lumps are needed, and figuring out - together - what changes we can make to make the forum a better place.

[wildweasel]

By default, users with moderator privileges that edit posts will not leave an "edited by" line. This is a phpBB default and needs to be specifically toggled on in order for users to see it.

Do not assume ill intent when it's just something the software does.

The same goes for users not appearing to be banned - previously this was a thing we needed a phpBB plugin for, which wound up not being compatible with the upgraded software.

As far as where to go from here, I legitimately do not know what I can even do about this that would appease these rightly angry people. We acted on what needed to be acted on, and as Cali said above, back-channel discussion among moderators is a fact of the position, and this is by no means limited to the Doom community.

[Kinsie]

By default, users with moderator privileges that edit posts will not leave an "edited by" line. This is a phpBB default and needs to be specifically toggled on in order for users to see it.

Do not assume ill intent when it's just something the software does.

Honestly, I just assumed it was the built-in "ninja edit" period where the edited line doesn't pop up if you edit within, like, five minutes of posting. I use that a lot for typoes and rewordings and such, because I words not gud.

[Rachael]

Another forum I go to has been having a lot of similar issues as of late. Like, extremely as of late. Their latest situation started calming down literally just as this one started! Those situations sucked, but they have resulted in a lot of improvements - staffing changes were made, handling of major decisions like new admins and policy changes were made more open and with more regular-user involvement, rules were tweaked and adjusted where they were causing unnecessary friction, and so on. There is room in the wake of this terrible situation for positive change by analysing and openly discussing everything that went wrong, taking whatever lumps are needed, and figuring out - together - what changes we can make to make the forum a better place.

This I can work with. I wish you were always like this, Kinsie. This is much better than how you came in initially, and better than how a number of others came in, as well.

Now - if you want to know what I was doing in moving those topics to the forums where they would be locked - yes, it was to contain the fallout. And that's why I linked this thread in one of them. All of this can be discussed in one place.

Banning TTA and Marty was because they seemed only interested in fanning the flames. To stir the drama pot. Sorry, but I don't tolerate that at all, and it's no different than how I've previously handled it. The only reason no one else has been banned so far, is because I was advised by some close friends to give people a place to vent about this. If they want to come in, calmly and cordially, to actually *discuss* things, and not *just* to throw more fire, I will reverse the ban.

[Caligari87]

Disclaimer: Despite my comment in the video, I was legitimately only loosely involved in in this particular situation. I can't speak for everything that happened in every circle.

That said, I think it's worth separating and analyzing what actually went wrong in this case, vs what is actually a larger systemic issue with moderation.

From what I can see, the main problem with the raw moderation action in Marisa's case is that we arguably didn't act fast enough. I'm willing to defend that as a well-intentioned mis-step because she was a big pillar of the community and had been subject to harassment in the past. Ultimately this time the situation did not resolve in her favor and she's gone for good due to her own actions. That's a positive outcome even if we stumbled getting there.

To me, the issue that a lot of people seem more upset about is the nature of the back-channel discussions around the Marisa situation. I'm ashamed to say that the tone and content of a lot of those discussions are indeed, quite damning for some people. We say things more freely in (what we think are) private contexts, and in a lot of eyes it's painted us as conniving, backstabbing, and vindictive. There's no reason for anyone looking in to believe for one minute that this kind of behavior was limited to this one spicy topic. Indeed, it's natural to assume that all backchannel discussions are this way.

and... well, I can say honestly that it's not like that in all of those discussions. But it's enough of them that there's certainly reason to be upset.

Publicly, I would like to advocate for un-banning anyone who was conceivably just "ringing the alarm bell". We were behind the curve in addressing multiple facets of the situation, and it's natural that some users would take that as ambivalence or complicity. At the time that may have been "fanning the flames" but for many people I think they were just trying to deal with what they saw as a lack of action.

[DoomTheRobot]

If they want to come in, calmly and cordially, to actually *discuss* things, and not *just* to throw more fire, I will reverse the ban.

I understand the software explanation from Weasel and Kinsie not catching edits if the field for it was left out or whatever, but it is still strange given the current context that you would continue to edit instead of finishing the full thought.

The only reason no one else has been banned so far, is because I was advised by some close friends to give people a place to vent about this.

So under normal circumstances would everyone in this thread be banned for "fanning the flames" or so to speak? Honestly, I have no idea what that means to me outside of just speaking about the incident because considering the bans already I feel like I'm already walking on eggshells mentioning the vagueness of the reasoning.

[Dr_Cosmobyte]

Banning TTA and Marty was because they seemed only interested in fanning the flames. To stir the drama pot.

I've seen people getting banned for "being annoying". I've seen people getting banned for wanting to contribute and use a second account.

But being banned and hidden under the carpet for bringing a situation that could even involve law itself is not what i would expect.

If they want to come in, calmly and cordially, to actually *discuss* things, and not *just* to throw more fire, I will reverse the ban.

That's not the same as giving a second chance. If you want to talk in a civilized way, You (the moderation in this case) should call Marty for talk.

I'm but a grain of sand in the modding community, but this is not the same place i worked my mind and skills for seven years.

[Rachael]

So under normal circumstances would everyone in this thread be banned for "fanning the flames" or so to speak? Honestly, I have no idea what that means to me outside of just speaking about the incident because considering the bans already I feel like I'm already walking on eggshells mentioning the vagueness of the reasoning.

Not everyone - but a few. The people who came in with purely accusatory tones, who seemed unwilling to hear anything, they just wanted vague "answers" to things. I don't argue with such people - it's a waste of time. I've been proven on that over and over and over again in the past.

People who want to resolve things, who make an honest effort to reach out to me and listen, who can argue *their* reasoning calmly, and objectively, I am much more likely to engage with positively.

[DrPyspy]

As far as where to go from here, I legitimately do not know what I can even do about this that would appease these rightly angry people. We acted on what needed to be acted on, and as Cali said above, back-channel discussion among moderators is a fact of the position, and this is by no means limited to the Doom community.

I want to clarify that I am all for a way for community moderators to discuss bad actors and situations that will affect the community as a whole. I want to reiterate that my core issue is the disrespect dealt to people behind the scenes. None of that inspires confidence in how situations will be dealt with going forward. People who have tried to speak out about it have been left without a way to properly defend themselves while they get returned with vague, snide remarks both here and the Discord.

Despite the circumstances, I do want to say that I appreciate both yours and Cali's posts, as I respect both of you admitting to the faults of the team and the fact that you both express a desire to deal with the repercussions of this whole situation.

Now - if you want to know what I was doing in moving those topics to the forums where they would be locked - yes, it was to contain the fallout. And that's why I linked this thread in one of them. All of this can be discussed in one place.

Banning TTA and Marty was because they seemed only interested in fanning the flames. To stir the drama pot. Sorry, but I don't tolerate that at all, and it's no different than how I've previously handled it. The only reason no one else has been banned so far, is because I was advised by some close friends to give people a place to vent about this. If they want to come in, calmly and cordially, to actually *discuss* things, and not *just* to throw more fire, I will reverse the ban.

I can attest to the fact that Marty's goal what NOT to stir drama; it was to bring to light what was happening in the interests of the community. Like the video says, he had exhausted his options to appeal to the moderation team. He felt this was the only way left to get the ball rolling on getting people to actually discuss the issue. I can understand not wanting to fan the flames, but this was quite literally the worst way you could've handled that. I mean this as respectfully as it can sound.

I also do not have any faith that you have desire to fix this situation; all of your responses so far have given the impression that you want to get over this as quickly as possible and don't want to deal with anything that results from it. Both your behavior after this has come to light and the behavior in the logs contribute to this. Respect goes both ways; you have shown many people involved in this no respect, so forgive me if I am not jumping at the chance to trust your intentions.

[wildweasel]

He "exhausted his options"? He said nothing to me after mid March and never once sought to ask me anything about the logs he showed in the video. Just put it all out there, and unfriended me on Discord at some point, which meant I had no option to speak privately with him. Not even an "is this true?"