Statement regarding Marisa the Magician (aka Marisa Kirisame)

[will183]

I've never been super active in this forum. But I will spout my opinion into the horde of masses who just like me, are rightfully very very VERY pissed.

You ask me. Rachel needs to step down or be removed, And the modding team needs a good long look in the mirror and there needs to be changes. Lots. Of. Changes. That's the first step to fixing or atleast negating this mess.

Everything I've seen over the years and most recently in this thread, has made me lose faith ENTIRELY in Rachel and a VERY good and large chunk of the mod team.
This entire situation has been disgusting.

The fact that plans were made to strong arm other communities into unbanning Marisa and it was planned for her to eventually secretly be unbanned once everything "blew over" is just horrible.

I will also note that Rachel's own behavior as a moderator and key corner stone of the Zdoom and Doom community has always been... shaky at best, horrific and abusive at worst. She simply cannot remain in power any longer. It's not feasible if this community wants to survive. There is a reason so so many people have multiple axes to grind with Rachel, from her very clear nepotism and her personal attacks of members of the community all the way up to her threatening of banning and her actual bannings. Many of which I do not believe are justified. Not to mention her threat against Kinsie at the first page in this thread if he didn't "Calm the fuck down" (Understandably I can see why Kins might be very upset over this situation)

Also note Candice's "Hypocritical Much?."

Apologies don't fix anything here. There needs to be change. Reformation.

I vote until things are changed, we keep the heat up. Either until this forum burns out and flickers into the cold breeze of the night finally, or until the core problems with this site, it's moderation staff and the community as a whole are fully ironed out, with the mod team having a nice cold hard introspective and removal of certain moderators/admins if necessary.

And if things don't ever change and this forum burns out. I hope someone will make a new forum, one that might have the right people at the helm. Moderators that are not currently involved with the Zdoom forums moderation staff.


The other admins I believe can still improve and become better. But Rachel has only been damaging to the reputation of Zdoom Forums and it's moderation team and has only been a force of stagnancy.

[DoomKrakken]

And if things don't ever change and this forum burns out. I hope someone will make a new forum, one that might have the right people at the helm. Moderators that are not currently involved with the Zdoom forums moderation staff.

Friendly reminder that the Doomer Boards are a thing. That'll be my fallback if things don't turn around.

[Eric_]

I would like to ask a question of the administration, if they're willing to answer honestly:
How many times has this happened before and been successfully buried?
How many times has a group like the Fun Police been made and subsequently co-opted and destroyed by Rachael inviting her friends and attempting to pressure other community leaders?
How many times has wildweasel had to tell those other leaders that it won't happen again?

I don't have any logs on this one, but I know the answer isn't zero. Be honest, or avoid the question and keep exacerbating the problem.

[Professor Hastig]

And if things don't ever change and this forum burns out. I hope someone will make a new forum, one that might have the right people at the helm. Moderators that are not currently involved with the Zdoom forums moderation staff.

Friendly reminder that the Doomer Boards are a thing. That'll be my fallback if things don't turn around.

Ouch! If there ever was a forum with a totally incompetent and biased staff, that'd be it. Good luck there, but that place is generally considered the cesspool of the Doom community. Every time I go there I come back with the desire to wash off the filth...

[Vyticoz]

I would like to express my opinion on the situation. I know almost everyone here will look at my username and think, "Who the hell are you? You're a nobody." And they're right. I'm not someone who's made anything of note. I've never interacted with the community in such a way that I'm known or memorable. I'm simply one of the thousands, if not tens of thousands of users who have made an account so we can browse and track various mods, topics, maps, etc. But let me tell you my story and then get to the heart of the matter so that the staff here can get a better view from the "average user."

I first started using these forums back in 2012. Back then, I didn't have an account, I simply browsed as a guest. This was because the people who got me into Doom modding warned me about the staff here and how they would ban people and delete posts simply because they disagreed with either the contents of the post or the poster. At first, I didn't believe them. Well, I did think they were telling the truth, but maybe they were exaggerating it until I saw it with my own eyes. One of my first experiences with this forum was seeing a user banned and their post deleted because they offered genuine criticism about the sprite and code work of a mod. Apparently, either the staff or the mod author took that criticism as some form of hate speech and hit them with the banhammer. This was back in 2012, 11 years ago, and nothing has changed since. In fact, it's gotten worse. That's why my account is only 2.5 years old. It took me almost 9 years to finally convince myself that it'd be worth it to make an account to keep track of various topics and threads so I wouldn't have 25,632 bookmarks to check every day.

Now onto the matter at hand. This entire situation has been nothing short of an absolute failure on every conceivable level by every single member of the staff! Every single one of you is complicit, either through complacency, ignorance, or malicious intent. I know everyone and their mother has jumped on Rachel and beaten that subject to death, and honestly, she deserves every single bit of criticism and more. But every single staff member here, from my perspective, deserves the same treatment for the way they've been handling not just this situation, but every time something happens. The staff continuously shows their ineptitude and incompetence in the way they handle things. The only exception, in my mind, is Cali. He's the only one, in my 11 years here, that I've seen consistently approach a situation level-headed and calmly, offering or looking for solutions. Sure, there have been a few times where he's let his emotions get the better of him, but that's because he's a human being. The difference between Cali and the rest of the staff is that he's the only one who will, at least, make an attempt to be level-headed, even when emotions are running high, or at the very least, he'll take a recess and come back when he's more calm.

Wildweasel, I know you're the guy footing the bill for this place, but honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd pull the plug and hit the big red button. The entire staff has so utterly failed time and time again that the only way to save this forum is to nuke it all and start over from scratch. And if that were to happen, the only current staff member that should even begin to be considered for the new staff would be Cali. Everyone else can kick bricks.

I don't know if the staff has noticed this, but prominent members of the Doom modding community have been leaving this place for years now and posting literally anywhere else, Doomworld, Doomer Boards, Github, Gitlab, Itch.io, /vr/ boards, just anywhere that's not here. This forum is dying and has been for a while now, and if the staff can't see that, it's just another display of incompetence and ineptitude and serves as another example as to why they shouldn't have even a modicum of power.

Either way, this entire situation is the final nail in the coffin unless there are some drastic changes IMMEDIATELY, but honestly even then, I wouldn't hold my breath. I honestly don't believe that these forums will ever recover from this. I know I have a grand total of like 10 posts in my 2.5 years here, but honestly, this will definitely be my last one. I'm also going to move on.

Who am I? I'm a nobody and just like the hundreds, if not thousands of other nobodies, I'm done with this place.

[yum13241]

Moderators that are not currently involved with the Zdoom forums moderation staff.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Caligari87 is probably the best admin here.

Here's a secret-but-probably-not-really: Last I heard, Rachael isn't the site owner. WildWeasel is, on account of paying all of the server bills.

If you're gonna nitpick, it was/is Randi. I believe from a legal standpoint she also owns the whole "ZDoom" name thing, but IANAL.

Personally, I'd archive all the posts, stick'em into a section on a new forum, and the only one that should be considered for admin would be Cali. Anyone else would have to prove it.

I'll use this situation as an excuse to get myself a Doomworld account.

[22alpha22]

Having read through the logs, this thread, and rewatching Marty's video, I think I'm prepared to give my thoughts on this whole fiasco.

I must say I'm deeply saddened by all that has happened. Compared to some of the communities I've been a part of, I always thought the ZDoom community was one of the better ones, with generally great people with some exceptions. I didn't have many interactions with Marisa, she may have helped me with some code here or there over the years but I certainly did not know her personally, so I don't have any real feelings about her or any of that business. Rather, what upsets me is how the some of the admins/mods behaved. There isn't too much I can say that Tapwave or Eric haven't already said, so I won't bother writing a wall of text.

I can't say I'm surprised how Rachael has responded during and after this whole mess, I've witnessed her in action over the years but fortunately have never been a victim of her wrath. No, what surprised me the most was how Weasel behaved during and especially after all this went down, I do not know him personally, but his reputation is truly legendary and I've seen how he has interacted with the community over the years, so to see how he behaved through this is truly saddening. If his and Rachael's behavior continues, this is not a community I can in good faith be a part of any longer.

I've been part of the Doom community for over a decade, starting in Doom World and leaving it when I found ZDoom because it seemed like a much nicer, more welcoming place. Now I'm not so sure. I've mostly lurked over the decade, occasionally logging in for some help or even to offer a bit of help when I thought I could. I've been quietly working on my own one man passion project for the better part of a decade that I hoped to one day release here, though that now seems in doubt. It may end up getting released on Doom World instead or not at all. I hope things change but I don't really have too much faith that they will.

[Kinsie]

If you're gonna nitpick, it was/is Randi.

I know she continued to run the server hosting for a while, but I thought things got fully transferred over at some point in the last year or two at the latest.

I've been quietly working on my own one man passion project for the better part of a decade that I hoped to one day release here, though that now seems in doubt. It may end up getting released on Doom World instead or not at all.

Don't give up on your mods just because of one website! Whether it's Doomworld, social media, Youtube or streaming services, there are plenty of ways to get your mods and maps in front of willing, enthusiastic players.

[Xtyfe]

I suppose I'll also add my thoughts to this since it seems safe to do so at least with this thread. I've been a member of the Doom community for more than 20 years. I used to be very active on the Newdoom forums for a long time before it crashed and burned. I founded the very first Newdoom Community Project (Though I didn't really contribute much to it beyond that, sadly. Check out the new Remaster coming soon!). I also come from a time before zdoom.org even existed, during the notgod days if there are oldies like me who still remember that. I've gone by many different names since then, Sparky, Xtife, Xtyfe, and ChaoticReverie as I am known now, especially on Doomworld. I stopped being active for a good many years, only posting when I needed help with my decorate/zscript tinkering (Which will hopefully turn into something bigger before I get too old).

I don't have much skin in this discussion, but I have been watching it unfold. I won't rehash too much of what has already been said, but I will give my perspective. This is not the first time there has been drama, nor will it be the last. But this is by far the greatest I have seen since I started in this community. In my current line of work, I would be legally obligated to report Marisa's behavior to authorities. There could be no hesitation and reflection on the possible consequences, no waiting days or weeks to act. It would have happened within less than 24 hours. If I fail at this, it would mean the suspension of my license, a very high fine, and even possible jail time. I'd never be able to work or be trusted in my field ever again. Of course, this is just an internet community and I'm not suggesting these strict rules should apply here. However, I think my last point absolutely fits in this case. The response from the moderation team is disgusting if not worse (!) than what Marisa did. I'd go so far as to say they could be seen as an accessory to it in certain contexts. The only way forward to preserve this community should be a significant regime change.

It pains me to even suggest this, as up until this point I have viewed Racheal and company as strong leaders despite their flaws. However, there is a reason why I chose to become less active on these forums in the last few years. I have always felt a sense that I was unwelcome. Any post I made regardless of subject matter could be met with anger and annoyance to the point of my posts and threads being locked, deleted, or worst case me being banned. The rules of these forums are too rigid and do not promote growth. It's a strong sign of an unhealthy community when users fear contributing their ideas, thoughts, and feelings. The early days of Doomworld were quite similar with a reputation at the time as being very trigger-happy, which is why I retreated to Newdoom for many years. Unlike back then, I don't support the idea of migrating elsewhere until things improve. All this does is fracture our community further until there is nothing left. ZDoom needs to continue and these forums need to continue with all of the great people that have made this place so amazing. I know you guys are angry and frustrated as I am as well, but this is not the way. Please stop fighting amongst yourselves and let's begin rebuilding for the better.

What I think needs to happen:

• Removal of certain moderation team members (This one seems to at least be unanimous so far)

• New, community-picked moderation

• New code of conduct for moderation

• Make changes to the rules to promote more growth and community engagement among users (So no one fears contributing anymore)

• More transparency

I believe this can happen. Let's not let this moment be the end of ZDoom.

[yum13241]

I suspect Doomworld will have a flood of new registrations/a spike in usage.

[will183]

I suspect Doomworld will have a flood of new registrations/a spike in usage.

Ultimately. This whole fiasco has birthed a firestorm. I have no doubts this site unless it makes drastic changes will die. Will GZDoom die alongside it? Probably not. But I know for a fact that these forums will either go through a massive regime change, become a ghost town or just have the plug totally pulled.
This is no doubt the last straw. The moderation team has ultimately failed. Weasel. Rachael. Pretty much everyone in the mod team was complacent and involved in this clusterfuck. except maybe Caligari who seems decent enough that I'd not batch him in with the rest.

Caligari is maybe the only moderator I'd consider worth keeping. Everyone else should be removed from positions of power. They can stay on the site, but they've shown some next level incompetence. And they have shown it multiple times over the decades.

[Combine_Kegan]

I'm pretty displeased with all of this as well. Term suffered due to the actions of the mod staff a few years back and nothing came of it. How many other incidents like this have been swept under the rug? I feel horrid injustices like this are going to repeat themselves if the current status quo is maintained. Something needs to change from all this.

[R4L]

Caligari is maybe the only moderator I'd consider worth keeping. Everyone else should be removed from positions of power. They can stay on the site, but they've shown some next level incompetence. And they have shown it multiple times over the decades.

I'm gonna agree with this but also throw in Weasel because at the end of the day I only see Cali and Weasel being the only ones admitting their faults genuinely and are actually trying to figure out how to move on. When I first joined here looking for help and I was learning how to work with GZDoom and the various tools I've seen both of them helping others. Hell, I learned how to make my first pistol thanks to GunLabs, and WW-Diaz was one of the first mods I crowned as one of my all time favorites (it still has the best pistols I've ever used). It's not everyday you are handed earth-shattering information about someone you consider a friend, on the wild west of the internet no less where anything can be miscontstrued.

It's already established that the way things were handled were obviously wrong and there definitely needs to be a change of authority. You absolutely cannot try to pull the wool over people's eyes about something that serious. At the end of the day though Cali and Weasel are the only ones that seem to have any humility over this whole thing, and to me that means there is some chance for growth. Unlike some of the other people and the responses that were posted in this thread...

Make no mistake: I feel extraordinary let down by people I respect and look up to, but I'm also reminded that my heroes are also human at the end of the day and are not infallible to mistakes. You can do two things in this situation: admit fault and figure out how to move on, or just say fuck it all. So far Cali and Weasel haven't shown me signs of the latter and for that I think if anyone were to stay, these two should.

Rachael, despite what others have said, I think you have shown some growth. I certainly don't see you spouting slurs anymore (like in the Skulltag chat that was shared earlier... oof). However, one of the more interesting rules I saw was "no dogpiling", yet I've seen you posting on threads after they were moderated accordingly with your own long winded and charged responses. You should absolutely not have to do that if you have any faith in your own moderation team, not to mention it breaks your own rule. I feel like you just respond to get your two cents out because you want to, not because it contributes but because you have some chip on your shoulder. There is no reason to be so emotionally charged in your responses. If you were passionate that'd be one thing, but mostly what I see is you getting your point across and then some. All of this has been echoed here by others and I probably sound like a broken record but this is what we are here for right? I'm a sysadmin IRL and have been on the help desk for many years and there are ways to deal with people. I feel like moderating in any capacity should be something similar to that, not "going for the throat", not banning people when they have a difference of opinion. You should be someone to respect and look up to, someone who can be trusted to go to for help, and I haven't seen anything like that mentioned here about you (instead, its quite the opposite). If I'm having an issue here, you and the other moderators should be approachable. Some people just have this mentality engrained in their personality though, and if that's you then I don't think it's a good idea that you continue to moderate this forum.

[CeeJay]

The sad part is that we are already witnessing the effect of this whole debacle, many noteworthy people have started to leave and I suspect this trend will continue. If it goes on like this, it will surely become a ghost town. A change has to be made indeed. I just hope the right one is made and the site doesn't end up going the way of the dinosaurs.

[yum13241]

Will GZDoom die alongside it? Probably not.

I sure do hope it doesn't, because it'd be stupid for a source port to die over some shitty administration.

or just have the plug totally pulled.

That'd only help them cover their asses. At best this forum would be turned into a read-only archive and Caligari87 would start a new forum. Or the forum goes through a regime change like you said.

Caligari is maybe the only moderator I'd consider worth keeping. Everyone else should be removed from positions of power. They can stay on the site, but they've shown some next level incompetence. And they have shown it multiple times over the decades.

I agree. (if you're gonna be nitpicky, you can't remove Randi, though she has nothing to do with this. You can't blame her. She never could've known.)

Welcome to Skulltag 2: Electric Boogaloo.