[DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

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Starman the Blaziken
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by Starman the Blaziken »

cyber_cool wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:13 am
Starman the Blaziken wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:54 pm Wayulll... The thing I been primarily experimenting the most with that had these issues was less of a gameplay mod and more of a thing of its own that- besides it was made for ZDoom at the time and can run on GZDoom mostly just fine (with HUD issues only, no one knows why), was playing with for fun but to see how it would play with something different and not just with a gameplay mod by itself. That I am mentioning is Mayhem Mansion, and a good few enemies have homing projectiles that have a behavior like the Revenant projectiles except from what I have experienced is a big eyeball boi that only eyeballs around on the ground you see in later stages has a smarter projectile but enemies with homing capable projectiles still have that crashing issue I have mentioned.
Haven't really played Mayhem Mansion, just seen a couple of videos. Tried to spawn and test actors matching your description, as well as other monsters, but projectiles were getting destroyed no problem, so it's either an ACS script or I missed a monster. Can't play through the whole game right now, so I instead made another attempt at fixing the bug, maybe it was related to a projectile spawning another projectile on death, and then this projectile spawning another, leading to an endless loop. Also, I am only testing my mods on the latest gzdoom version, if you happen to be running older versions - maybe it has something to do with the crash.
I did mention it was the perfected version of the ADS when it throws projectiles back at the enemy.
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cyber_cool
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by cyber_cool »

Starman the Blaziken wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:29 am I did mention it was the perfected version of the ADS when it throws projectiles back at the enemy.
I know. But it was the last thing I could think of. The code for reflecting a missile is very simple:
proj.tracer = proj.target; proj.target = owner;
And shouldn't cause any issues, especially with simple action function calls.
And I have no idea how can it cause a hard crash, nor I can reproduce the issue. I literally checked every enemy that has homing missiles, and they all get reflected just fine.
Are you sure that you are running latest gzdoom version + the latest mod version? I can't really fix this without a way to reproduce the crash.
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by Starman the Blaziken »

cyber_cool wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:52 am
Starman the Blaziken wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:29 am I did mention it was the perfected version of the ADS when it throws projectiles back at the enemy.
I know. But it was the last thing I could think of. The code for reflecting a missile is very simple:
proj.tracer = proj.target; proj.target = owner;
And shouldn't cause any issues, especially with simple action function calls.
And I have no idea how can it cause a hard crash, nor I can reproduce the issue. I literally checked every enemy that has homing missiles, and they all get reflected just fine.
Are you sure that you are running latest gzdoom version + the latest mod version? I can't really fix this without a way to reproduce the crash.
Yeeeup. I had gotten the latest stable version of the augments and core mod at the time by November 10th for GZDoom 4.9.0.
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cyber_cool
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by cyber_cool »

Starman the Blaziken wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:18 am Yeeeup. I had gotten the latest stable version of the augments and core mod at the time by November 10th for GZDoom 4.9.0.
November 10th? I made a solid attempt at fixing the bug on Novermber 14th: https://github.com/cyberc001/deusdoom-a ... d925ca02fc
Try downloading the mod once more.
Starman the Blaziken
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by Starman the Blaziken »

cyber_cool wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:07 am
Starman the Blaziken wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:18 am Yeeeup. I had gotten the latest stable version of the augments and core mod at the time by November 10th for GZDoom 4.9.0.
November 10th? I made a solid attempt at fixing the bug on Novermber 14th: https://github.com/cyberc001/deusdoom-a ... d925ca02fc
Try downloading the mod once more.
Alright, I will try it.
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by Starman the Blaziken »

Alright, while it is good this worked with my current save, I can say your attempts seemed to have worked as the projectiles on impact not hard crash the game anymore for me now. Goodie!
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by bigthunk »

Once this is in a more bug-free state (relatively speaking), any plans on adding sort of mutators or addons replicating Deus Ex mods like Biomod or Shifter? I'd be one helluva trip to use the ILAW in this mod.
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cyber_cool
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by cyber_cool »

bigthunk wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:41 pm Once this is in a more bug-free state (relatively speaking), any plans on adding sort of mutators or addons replicating Deus Ex mods like Biomod or Shifter? I'd be one helluva trip to use the ILAW in this mod.
Not a bad idea, but this will totally be last on the list - aside from bugs, I am still balancing the weapons, and there are some other Deus Ex-related mods I am planning to make.
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by bigthunk »

cyber_cool wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:29 am Not a bad idea, but this will totally be last on the list - aside from bugs, I am still balancing the weapons, and there are some other Deus Ex-related mods I am planning to make.
Ah yeah no, that's completely understandable. I think what we have so far is good but I do agree need quite a bit of ironing out. Good work so far though!

Also I'm assuming one of those Deus Ex mods is an item replacement mod?
Last edited by bigthunk on Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Xada
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by Xada »

After a bit of time playing through this I have noticed some things:

*Some weapon surfaces that should be fullbright are being affected by colored sector lighting or dynamic lights, ie. muzzle flash, Dragon Tooth Sword, LAM light etc. Maybe there is a way to force these to always have lightened surface?
*Starting out in many WADs has proven extremely difficult. Given the type of project this is and that Deus Ex is a more stealth centered game it makes a lot of sense, but at times it can be crushingly difficult...Once you start getting your hands on weaponry and weapon-mods, then invest further into skills it becomes very manageable. I am not very good at balance myself so I am unsure how the start-out could be utilized other than perhaps offering separate weapon start loadouts or some-such? Hard to say.
*Mods that drop "Pistol" seem to drop the regular Doom1 pistol which can then be picked up which is jarring. It might be worth re-routing it to drop an array of pistols and throwing knives or something. A lot of mods drop regular pistol off monsters so it is probably worth putting a failsafe in.
*I have witnessed similar issues to what was brought up before in -very- specific instances. I think it has to do with other mods, but it seems to also be triggered when crushers mash mobs while they are also being affected by the gas grenade smoke. They become unhittable with anything aside from explosives as if they had been exposed to the age old archvile crusher exploit.
*Throwing Knives... I adore them and always use them, but the current implementation, even if aiming for true accurateness is a little weird for Doom's gameplay. Personally even though it is not accurate I'd make them toss sooner in the animation, and probably make them faster overall; this brings me to a suggestion:

Perhaps eventual implementation of toggle-able mod-specific content? For instance, weapon speed mods, something like a damage type mods, etc? They may not exist in OG Deus Ex but they'd really help the mod be a little more fair for the context of Doom gameplay.

I will say, once the weapons and mods start dropping this thing is an absolute -blast- to play through. Going through Operation:BioWar with Deus Ex Weapons was a real treat and felt 'right' somehow. Great work, and the accurate emulation of things is really impressive! :D
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cyber_cool
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by cyber_cool »

Xada wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm After a bit of time playing through this I have noticed some things:

*Some weapon surfaces that should be fullbright are being affected by colored sector lighting or dynamic lights, ie. muzzle flash, Dragon Tooth Sword, LAM light etc. Maybe there is a way to force these to always have lightened surface?
Went ahead and made weapon models fully bright when muzzle flash is present (pistol, assault rifle, assault shotgun, sawed-off shotgun). LAM should already be lit up when blinking, and Dragon's Tooth Sword emits light by itself.
Xada wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm Starting out in many WADs has proven extremely difficult. Given the type of project this is and that Deus Ex is a more stealth centered game it makes a lot of sense, but at times it can be crushingly difficult...Once you start getting your hands on weaponry and weapon-mods, then invest further into skills it becomes very manageable. I am not very good at balance myself so I am unsure how the start-out could be utilized other than perhaps offering separate weapon start loadouts or some-such? Hard to say.
I admit it may be hard, but I haven't found it insanely hard. You have to make the most out of weapons you don't specialize in, compensate for large spread by luring monsters closer to you (keep in mind that pistol oneshots zombiemen/shotgunners even at untrained skill level), and save ammo (remember that knife has enough damage to oneshot zombiemen), which is almost the opposite of how you would be playing on later levels. I have also thought about loadouts, but it would be hard to balance them in a way that people won't prefer one loadout over another all the time. Well, maybe if there are mapsets that force you to shoot mancubus with a pistol, I will add a riot prod to the starting loadout.
Xada wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm Mods that drop "Pistol" seem to drop the regular Doom1 pistol which can then be picked up which is jarring. It might be worth re-routing it to drop an array of pistols and throwing knives or something. A lot of mods drop regular pistol off monsters so it is probably worth putting a failsafe in.
Sure, added a spawner for vanilla pistol.
Xada wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm I have witnessed similar issues to what was brought up before in -very- specific instances. I think it has to do with other mods, but it seems to also be triggered when crushers mash mobs while they are also being affected by the gas grenade smoke. They become unhittable with anything aside from explosives as if they had been exposed to the age old archvile crusher exploit.
Couldn't reproduce, but I had some ideas what could cause that bug, hopefully I managed to fix it.
Xada wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm Throwing Knives... I adore them and always use them, but the current implementation, even if aiming for true accurateness is a little weird for Doom's gameplay. Personally even though it is not accurate I'd make them toss sooner in the animation, and probably make them faster overall;
Yeah, for some reason the projectile spawned at the end of the animation, so I made it spawn much sooner. Also buffed the projectile speed not of just throwing knives, but also mini-crossbow darts/plasma bolts, so it will be easier to hit targets at larger distances.
Xada wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm Perhaps eventual implementation of toggle-able mod-specific content? For instance, weapon speed mods, something like a damage type mods, etc? They may not exist in OG Deus Ex but they'd really help the mod be a little more fair for the context of Doom gameplay.
Increasing rate of fire for weapons in gzdoom engine is kinda difficult, since everything is tied to frame durations, and it kinda makes weapons even more overpowered when fully upgraded with every mod (you already can make weapons reload instantly and have zero spread, including shotguns). Damage types seem very specific, to be honest, considering this is still an universal mod first (also, flamethrower already uses "Fire" damage type, and EMP/stun/scramble effects are configurable for individual monster classes). Maybe I'll still introduce more weapon mods in the future (considering that scope and range mods are unused right now), but for now I don't have good ideas.
Xada wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:21 pm I will say, once the weapons and mods start dropping this thing is an absolute -blast- to play through. Going through Operation:BioWar with Deus Ex Weapons was a real treat and felt 'right' somehow. Great work, and the accurate emulation of things is really impressive! :D
Thank you, especially for the feedback. Glad to know someone's enjoying the mod as much as I do.
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Yholl
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by Yholl »

Me again with more feedback and stuff

Items that are placed on things like conveyor belts end up leaving their pickup hitbox behind. I was wondering why I couldn't pick up some weapon mods, and then found out the actual pickup selection was back where they'd spawned in the conveyor belt.

Are 20mm grenades implemented at all? I thought I was finding them, but don't seem to have any. Could just be mistake on my part.

Silencer doesn't change the firing sound on weapons, I assume just because you haven't gotten to implementing that yet. I do have a question though; are you going to make the assault rifle just play the single silenced shot sound like in DX, or make a custom version of the sound with three shots instead? That was always weird, hahaha.

Could we maybe get an optional log or something? Just something simple that shows you picked up a GEP Gun, or +4 shells, or +6 10mm ammo.

I'm having a blast with this still, thanks again!
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cyber_cool
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by cyber_cool »

Yholl wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:33 am Items that are placed on things like conveyor belts end up leaving their pickup hitbox behind. I was wondering why I couldn't pick up some weapon mods, and then found out the actual pickup selection was back where they'd spawned in the conveyor belt.
Some over-optimization happened. Should be fixed now.
Yholl wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:33 am Are 20mm grenades implemented at all? I thought I was finding them, but don't seem to have any. Could just be mistake on my part.
You are getting unlucky, I guess. HE grenades are in rocket ammo / rocket box spawn pool, though they are more rare than GEP rockets (but significantly less rare than WP rockets).
Yholl wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:33 am Silencer doesn't change the firing sound on weapons, I assume just because you haven't gotten to implementing that yet. I do have a question though; are you going to make the assault rifle just play the single silenced shot sound like in DX, or make a custom version of the sound with three shots instead? That was always weird, hahaha.
Yeah, Deus Ex had a bug where stealth pistol firing sound would take priority if the weapon was silenced (this included mini-crossbow, afaik).
Added silencer firing sounds for sniper rifle and assault rifle. For assault rifle, I cobbled together a version with 3 shots (what's weird is that Deus Ex assault rifle actually fires bursts of 5 rounds, but what's more weird is that I made it fire 3 rounds during initial weapon balancing so you could better control ammo consumption. Didn't know it would come into play later, huh).
Yholl wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:33 am Could we maybe get an optional log or something? Just something simple that shows you picked up a GEP Gun, or +4 shells, or +6 10mm ammo.
Added simple logging of picking up weapons/ammo/items in console. I was thinking of adding the log overlay, but for now I am against it since it would clutter the screen, and I also haven't figured out yet how to make it apply universally (i.e. to vanilla/other mod item pickups / console messages in general).

I really appreciate the detailed feedback.
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by Yholl »

cyber_cool wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:53 amYou are getting unlucky, I guess. HE grenades are in rocket ammo / rocket box spawn pool, though they are more rare than GEP rockets (but significantly less rare than WP rockets).
Yeah, found some and checked em out right after I posted, hahahaha. My bad!

I've found that I can sometimes get multiple items into the same area in the inventory. I've had it happen the most often when trying to move the Sniper Rifle, and instead a single tile item from the bottom right of the inventory moved into the left most tile of the sniper rifle.

Also good lord the Plasma Rifle is powerful. The GEP Gun kinda pales in comparison to it.
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cyber_cool
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Re: [DeusDoom: Weapons] adding Deus Ex weapons to Doom

Post by cyber_cool »

Yholl wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:06 am I've found that I can sometimes get multiple items into the same area in the inventory. I've had it happen the most often when trying to move the Sniper Rifle, and instead a single tile item from the bottom right of the inventory moved into the left most tile of the sniper rifle.
I couldn't imagine that the inventory glitch from Deus Ex will happen in the mod, but here we are.
I managed to reproduce it and found the problem, though. I guess it's fixed now.
Yholl wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:06 am Also good lord the Plasma Rifle is powerful. The GEP Gun kinda pales in comparison to it.
Technically it has way less damage (50x3 vs 260 on untrained skill level), but the difference in practice is less due to explosion damage calculations (I recreated the system Deus Ex uses).
Still, I think both weapons have their strengths and weaknesses:
  • GEP gun has a lock-on feature, which is ideal for sniping mancubi/cacodemons/arachnotrons, while plasma rifle suffers from slow projectile speed and noticeable arcing (though I buffed it recently).
  • GEP gun has better explosion radius and can also fire WP rockets for even better crowd control, while plasma rifle is mostly limited to single targets / very grouped together monsters.
  • Plasma rifle has a clip and a solid rate of fire, while GEP gun reloads after each shot. Though in fairness, once you get the reload time down to 0 seconds, they start to rival in terms of DPS, but plasma rifle still wins.
Maybe I'll nerf plasma rifle damage in the future, but for now after completing the whole 20 levels of Lost Civilization with all 3 heavy weapons (technically also used LAW until it didn't fit in my inventory), I am not sure - it doesn't even oneshot mancubi sometimes (and doesn't kill bosses significantly faster than GEP gun).

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