Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

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DeeDeeOZ
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by DeeDeeOZ »

Xanirus wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 9:51 pm -Hey man, wanted to say I'm enjoying the hell out of this mod and Payback enemies.... That famous stock "click" noise that so many demo discs used back in the Win 95 era is up my nostalgia alley.
-However, is there a way to be able to tell the caliber of a weapon at a glance, before picking it up?...It would also be nice if the name of guns would be displayed when you have them equipped, it would with the caliber memorization.
-Glad to hear your enjoying it, always nice to hear people enjoying both this and the enemies.

-if you walk over a gun without picking it up it you will loot some extra rounds off it which should display the caliber in the pickup message this might help.
Displaying the name when equipped is also a good idea, you can see it when scrolling or changing weapon but would help for people less familiar with guns, might give it a go.

Also for those that are interested, I managed to combine base Payback and Rogues (all characters and weapons) into one complete package, now available on main page. Even added 2 extra characters (info on main page under Rogues section) and a couple of extra weapons, player select menu is cramped as adjusting it more broke my menus. Feel free to give it a go.
Xanirus
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by Xanirus »

DeeDeeOZ wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 9:22 am
-if you walk over a gun without picking it up it you will loot some extra rounds off it which should display the caliber in the pickup message this might help.
Displaying the name when equipped is also a good idea, you can see it when scrolling or changing weapon but would help for people less familiar with guns, might give it a go.
I noticed that yeah, but during massive fights and when you have to run over all the guns with ammo you're not going to have time to look, that's why I mentioned the names and some of ammo identifier. I knew the more common ones like 9mm, 5.56, 7.62 etc, but then there's ones like the pink one that the RCP90 is using, .45 in guns that aren't pistols, some kind of 5.XX variation I've never seen before, stuff like that.

I also think it would be useful to mention the special weapons to each character on the main menu. And speaking of those, is lung capacity a lore thing, or for real? I know GZDoom has swimming, not that a whole lot of map makers use water, but I don't think a breathe limit is inherent to GZDoom.

But yea this plus Gun Bonsai and a bunch of others, this mod is a blast.
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DeeDeeOZ
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by DeeDeeOZ »

Xanirus wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 6:35 pm is lung capacity a lore thing, or for real?
its real, all the stats are relative to something, it affects the characters length of time to swim/breath in gas rooms before taking damage (it's very rarely used in maps so not hugely important). Damage is based on there starting weapons/ speed is movement speed, health is based on toughness with stronger characters taking less damage. Even sanity and faith have some minor buffs, with the faithful characters having higher damage resistance to represent their dedication and the insane characters having faster movement and rambling more when they get hurt.

sorry if the different calibers can be confusing my main recommendation is to just dump weapons when you fully run out of ammo, the more common ones will restock fast enough and the rarer ones like the P90 (5.7mm) have ammo that doesn't appear in spawns so just use it till its empty and discard it (treat them more like a temporary powerup then hording them). All guns always coming with a full clip so its worth dumping a half spent weapon just to pickup the same one.
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by Xanirus »

As most weapon only replacer mods tend to be, they're meant to be used with whatever monster replacer you want, and given the description of this mod in the OP that's the idea; the accompanying Payback monster mod is just obviously the most in-lore pair up.

But I tried using the weapons mod alone to see how well it stacked up against regular Doom enemies. I only tried one basic Obsidian-made level, but it seems that only enemies that use actual guns like zombiemen and shotguners drop guns, not even imps, which are very common.

I'm guessing that only enemies that drop weapons in regular Doom will be dropping Payback weapons. It kind of makes sense, since that's how normal Doom is, but at the same time then comes the issue with having almost no ammo, and checking the health values of Doom enemies and Payback enemies, Doom enemies are a lot beefier, so relying on the map-placed weapon and ammo spawns seems to be not enough.

Is Obsidian doing something to prevent the weapon drops, or is it because I'm not using any enemy replacer at all?
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DeeDeeOZ
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by DeeDeeOZ »

Hey, thanks for the input
-The drops are the same as basic doom with only human enemies dropping weapons if your not using a enemy replacer, I have played through all of Doom2, TNT and a couple of megawads with just this and it didn't seem to be a problem, you rely more on pistols/shotguns and the LAW's as boss killers. But its definitely doable (maybe not slaughter wads)
-I'm surprised Obsidian/Oblige is leaving you short on ammo, it usually spawns way to much stuff in single levels (like backpacks and bfg's in first map) unless you tweak the spawns. It can be that if loves to chuck in way to many bigger monsters (especially cacodemons)
-It can also be linked to the character your playing as, several have magnums as their base weapon which have uncommon ammo and have a harder time, Yuri refuses to use any type of pistol and can struggle until he gets a shotgun. It can be useful to use melee weapons (melee is much stronger than base doom) on weaker enemies.
-Hope some of this helps, I really don't want to adjust the ammo spawns/weapon drops any more as it could swing the other way and you have to much ammo. If your not playing the complete version try that as the ammo drops are slightly buffed.

Again thanks for the feedback, hope this helps. and thanks for playing it
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by Xanirus »

I noticed that the firing sound effect that the UMP45 uses, as well as any other gun that shares the same sound, is extremely quiet compared to the rest. I (may?) of found it in SLADE, UMP45f.ogg, but in there it sounds relatively at the same volume as everything else.

However, I do notice in weapons/ump45.txt it says

A_PlayWeaponSound ""weap/45fire"

of which the sound file seems to be a different naming system altogether, so I'm assuming this is using a different method of loading sounds. As far as I'm able to read from a quick Google search there is another command for playing sounds: A_StartSound. No idea what the difference is. I'm no programmer, but I have been able to change minor things like weapon accuracy and speed, changing graphics, and in this case changing sound volume (by simply changing it in Audition and replacing it), but this is unfortunately one thing I can't figure out.

Both the new Complete 1.0 combined version of the mod seems to have this as well as the older separated versions. I swear the sound wasn't this soft before, but I ran the mod by itself and still had the same result. Or my ears are just deceiving me. The only personal changes I did to the mod I myself is change the HUD from yellow to green, and removed the scope graphics. (For some reason it wasn't lining up properly with the cursor, I think Universal Sway seems to of affected it, but as I'm using a Laser Sight mod it didn't really matter.)
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DeeDeeOZ
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by DeeDeeOZ »

not really sure what happening here, tested it out myself and sounds fine to me, possible softer than some of the punchier guns but not dramatically.
the UMP45f.ogg is the right sound (used by both the ump and the m16K) weap/45fire uses UMP45f as its sound in SNDINFO. And all my weapons use A_PlayWeaponSound for firing. in the oldest versions of Payback the m16k used to use the AUGPF sound which is louder and might be what your talking about.
Also universal sway might stuff up the crosshairs (unsure) I don't run many extra addons so unsure what might effect it sorry.
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by openroadracer »

So I've been feeling out this weapon set for a while now, and I think I've made up my mind on what weapons I think are the best in each category. Buckle up, this is going to be a long one...
  • Best melee weapon is either the Machete or the Katana. Very high damage, high swing speed, and they seem to have a bit of reach to them. Very powerful, if you can find one.
  • Projectile weapons, well, honestly they both suck. That said, I do use the Nail Gun more, if only because it seems SLIGHTLY more practical. If I may make a suggestion, I think this class could do well with some thrown weapons like Molotov Cocktails or certain types of grenades, especially flashbangs if you could figure out a way to make them work.
  • Light pistols goes to a seemingly unlikely choice: the Taurus .380 Snub Revolver. The main reason for choosing the .380 Snub over other choices is to free up the 9mm and .45ACP ammo for the SMGs and machine pistols; but if that were it, I'd do just as well with the PMM, right? But no, the PMM is so much weaker per shot, it's not even funny; Xaser's DamNums says that the PMM hits for 6xD3 damage every shot, while the .380 Snub hits for 11xD3 damage, effectively DOUBLE what the PMM can do.
  • Heavy pistols, I at first thought the best was the S&W .500 Magnum, but as time has gone on, I've decided the two best are actually the Wildey .475 Magnum and the Desert Eagle .50AE. The reason being that the difference in damage is nearly negligible, while having two extra rounds per magazine REALLY makes a difference.
  • Shotguns, I pretty much just auto-grab the KS-23 as soon as I can, simply for ammo coverage; I know that technically, the 1887 gets one more shell per magazine, and the SPAS-15 gets 7 shells per reload with a box magazine, but I prefer to leave the extra shotgun slot open for some of the more powerful auto shotguns. If you're playing DooM 1 with this mod and you find a Browning Auto 5, count yourself lucky; 5 rounds on semi-automatic makes remarkably short work of enemies up close. But if you can find either the USAS-12 or the Pancor Jackhammer, then you're REALLY in business.
  • For machine pistols, I try to locate an H&K MP5K as soon as I can. More damage than most 9mm SMGs and MPs, with respectable accuracy and rate of fire.
  • For sub-machine guns, I'll try to go for the H&K UMP45 if there aren't any better options, but I REALLY like the LaFrance M16K-45 if I can find it. Even rarer but even more desirable is the TDI Vector, which keeps the 30-round mag of the M16K, but for some reason hits even harder.
  • For marksman weapons, I pretty much always try to find a bolt-action 7.62mm rifle, either the SV-98 or the Remington 700. I will admit that I will eagerly drop the SV-98 in favor of the Remington because I prefer Western-made just on principle.
  • For assault rifles, there's a broad range of 5.56mm rifles I'll be happy with including the M16, SA80, AR-18, Galil, etc. etc.; but none of them quite match up to the H&K G36 and the Stark Industries F200S. Those two scoped ARs are basically the two best in the category, unless you're willing to deal with the scarce ammunition of the OTs-14 Groza.
  • For explosives, I pretty much just lock the RPG-7 and forget about it. All of the regular grenade launchers just feel really weak to me. The reason why I don't use the M202 FLASH is because it for some reason uses the same ammo as the LAW launchers, which you're not allowed to get rid of. If you made the FLASH use the RPG's ammo, I think it would be better.
  • For the "Super-Heavy" weapon class, the two I prefer to go for are the PKM and the M60. Now, while I prefer the M60 on the grounds of being a Western gun, I also prefer it from the aesthetic standpoint of holding the gun with both hands, unlike the PKM's graphics showing the ammo belt draped over one arm while firing the gun one-handed; it makes the M60 FEEL more accurate, even if it isn't.
Take all of this with a grain of salt, though, as I freely admit I pretty much only ever use Matt McGregor when I'm playing this.
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by DeeDeeOZ »

This is a pretty good attempt and min-maxing your arsenal/ammo to be honest. I think some of the player specific weapons like the kukri and hatchet preform almost the same as the machete and if you cheat in the guitar you will have some fun, Ezekiels revolver hits hard to. another good idea is to use the Oa-93 as a MP, and any 7.62/5.45 rifles on the assault slot, leave the marksman weapon for odder stuff (tranq/val/bow) and the heavy slot for miniguns and flamethrowers.

I like to dump weapons just to snatch some of the rarer caliber ones. Things like the P90 are almost always worth getting, using and disposing. (this will be affected by which enemy set your playing in truth). And Matt/Melissa/Hardin and Harriet are all pretty well balanced. Again good effort and perfecting the weapons loadout, now its up to the RNG to give you what you need.
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by openroadracer »

Also, one little thing I'd suggest, and I know it might sound weird...

But as it turns out, the Walther PPK is actually available in a .380 ACP model. I'd suggest changing that gun's ammo from 9x19 to .380 as a result.
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Facínora
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by Facínora »

As promised, I also published a video with the ROGUES part of the mod.
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DeeDeeOZ
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by DeeDeeOZ »

Facínora wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:42 pm As promised, I also published a video with the ROGUES part of the mod.
Awesome thanks. Love that you played as Appleman, was nice to see you take on the punisher guys aswell. stuck both gameplay videos as links on main page.
openroadracer wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 5:46 am Also, one little thing I'd suggest, and I know it might sound weird...
But as it turns out, the Walther PPK is actually available in a .380 ACP model. I'd suggest changing that gun's ammo from 9x19 to .380 as a result.
PPK was originally going to be .380 but I wanted Harriet's silenced version to be 9mm to help with ammo availability, figured having two different caliber versions of same gun might confuse people. might consider it in future.
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by openroadracer »

DeeDeeOZ wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 12:38 amPPK was originally going to be .380 but I wanted Harriet's silenced version to be 9mm to help with ammo availability, figured having two different caliber versions of same gun might confuse people. might consider it in future.
Just make it where magazines of .380 ammo drop just as frequently as 9X19 and .45ACP, problem solved.
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by EpicTyphlosion »

I'm having loads of fun with this mod! Really glad to see more cool mods that support classic ZDoom, too.
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Re: Payback/ROGUES Weapons and Characters Mod

Post by Lim0n4eG »

Random hero selection feature when?

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