Dehacked Attack v4.0 & Dehacked Defense v3.0

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Whoah
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Re: Dehacked Attack v2.1 & Dehacked Defense v1.1

Post by Whoah »

Great mod! Both of em offer some really nice variety without anything too complicated or performance demanding going on. I don't have much to say bug/balance wise, but I got a few suggestions for new .wads to add.

Firstly, I'd love to see Obituary's weapons in the mix. Content from All Hell is Breaking Loose could also be added into the mix as well. I also think a lot of Doomkid's .wads could fit the bill, particularly Space Doom, Ray Mohawk 1 & 2, and Rowdy Rudy 1 & 2. Lookin forward to seeing where this project goes, you've got a really cool concept
Untitled
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Re: Dehacked Attack v2.1 & Dehacked Defense v1.1

Post by Untitled »

Obituary's weapons will likely never make it to the mix because I can't actually get Obituary.wad to run - all three of the monsters are from DECORATE recreations available on Realm667, so unless somewhat has very detailed documentation on exactly what those weapons were it's unlikely I will ever be able to extract them.

All Hell is Breaking Loose mostly had balance issues because a lot of its more custom and well-known monsters were really awkward to slot; in particular the 'arachnotron with a chaingunner riding it', because at this point I'm trying to avoid adding any more hitscan enemies to non-hitscan slots because everyone universally hates it when that happens, and the arachnotron already has two. The gargoyles just don't really fit anywhere (iirc they're annoyingly large hitbox wise, and they fly); and these kinds of issues are why I didn't add the cultist variants from Maskim Xul and why I eventually removed the exploding cacodemon (and the NDCP 2 monster set with it); the problem is most of the problematic enemies are the most iconic ones from All Hell is Breaking Loose, which is unfortunate (see: the chaingunner-riding-arachnotron thing).

Also, the fire graphics from the fire demon and the flying baron I'm pretty sure were only designed to look good on a low-res monitor, which, fair enough, it's an old mod, but even for this mod those two would stand out as looking rather ugly.

As for Doomkid's mods, I'll have to check them out. Hopefully there's nothing that's too much of a pain to implement properly...
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Whoah
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Re: Dehacked Attack v2.1 & Dehacked Defense v1.1

Post by Whoah »

Untitled wrote:Obituary's weapons will likely never make it to the mix because I can't actually get Obituary.wad to run - all three of the monsters are from DECORATE recreations available on Realm667, so unless somewhat has very detailed documentation on exactly what those weapons were it's unlikely I will ever be able to extract them.
Ah, right, somehow I forgot just how much of a pain Obituary is to get running. Here, I was able to find a fixed version in the DSDA archive. Just click the blue "obtic11" up top, and you'll get a repackaged fixed version! https://dsdarchive.com/wads/obtic11

And as for All Hell's stuff, that sounds pretty understandable. Guess it all only works in the context of the original wad, huh? Either way, hope this link helps!
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openroadracer
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Re: Dehacked Attack v2.1 & Dehacked Defense v1.1

Post by openroadracer »

Just a minor suggestion for DeHackEd Defense: Could you make it where, if you choose "Randomizer Mode", it makes it where 1) you start with all fist replacements, and 2) small bullet pickups are replaced by Pistol replacements?

And a separate suggestion for DeHackEd Defense: Would you consider reducing the ammo types to just the vanilla ammunition types, changing which ammo types are used by which weapons? Or would that require removing the unique ammo pickups?
Untitled
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Re: Dehacked Attack v2.1 & Dehacked Defense v1.1

Post by Untitled »

openroadracer wrote:Just a minor suggestion for DeHackEd Defense: Could you make it where, if you choose "Randomizer Mode", it makes it where 1) you start with all fist replacements, and 2) small bullet pickups are replaced by Pistol replacements?

And a separate suggestion for DeHackEd Defense: Would you consider reducing the ammo types to just the vanilla ammunition types, changing which ammo types are used by which weapons? Or would that require removing the unique ammo pickups?
First suggestion: It's not actually a good idea to start with that many fist replacements, because it makes scrolling through all of them a pain. On another note, actually: If you don't know, while some are graphically different, all of the fist variants, while some are better than others marginally speaking, are essentially the same. As for pistols-replacing-clips, actually, that's not a bad idea; that'll be in the next version of Dehacked Defense.

Second suggestion: the main issue is that separation of ammo types was actually one of the main methods that the plasma rifles actually balance against each other; otherwise there's too many situations where after picking up one plasma rifle will obsolete another. The Hand of Afrit was the other example of a weapon which was balanced that way, because it's literally strictly better (and strictly a lot better) than the rocket launcher in every way aside from running off a different ammo source. The Plasma Rifles are the worst for this; calibrating cell usage across the weapons is a pain. It's mainly an issue in randomizer mode because then you can actually have all of the plasma rifles in your inventory at once. The BFGs then get a step weirder for this, as many have unconventional ammo spreads even within their native wads (two use rockets, and one uses the player's health). I actually originally wanted everything on vanilla ammo types, but I decided it wasn't worth the pain that trying to balance all of the weapons would bring. Plus, Maskim Xul screws this up further because cell pickups become singular jack-o-bombs, and the cell pack's replaced with a medikit in that weapon set.

That being said, I'm down to try some extra options in the next version of Dehacked Defense. I'm just not promising anything.
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TheNightATK300
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Re: Dehacked Attack v2.1 & Dehacked Defense v1.1

Post by TheNightATK300 »

Would Aliens TC fit as a mod for this?
Untitled
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.0 & Dehacked Defense v2.0

Post by Untitled »

TheNightATK300 wrote:Would Aliens TC fit as a mod for this?
Probably not; it's much more a fully-fledged TC than a doom mod that coincidentally has some new enemies. Anyways:

Another Double Release! Happy Holidays to the Doom Community; I hope you enjoy what I've made.

New to Dehacked Attack V3.0:

Three new monster sets and one returning one, spanning eleven new monsters, including two new final bosses:
NDCP 2 is back! The Kamikaze Cacodemon joins the cacodemon party, and the Possessed Clone Marine exists as an Icon of Sin spawn.
Doom Zero: The Alpha Soul is a new terror to the Lost Soul roster.
NOVA 2: The Hierophant, both Fake and Real, will appear in the Archvile and Cyberdemon positions respectively.
DOOM -1: Two imp variants, the self-destructing lost soul known as the wicked, the hell dragon (spawns with pain elementals) and the Icon of Sin exclusive Rocket Turret all join the roster!
The True Hierophant (NOVA 2) and Baphomet (DOOM -1) join as a pair of new final bosses! Good luck.
The Level Scaling has been touched up a bit to make the difficulty curve much more gradual. Remember that this setting is balance for Full WAD playthroughs - so it's expected that you're carrying weapons over into later maps!
That just about covers Dehacked Attack. On the other side...

New to Dehacked Defense V2.0:

A new class, the Son of Doomguy from Doom -1, joins the class roster, and all of his weapons join the collection too.
You can now start up with up to 100 backpacks (i.e. maximum ammo), because why not.
If playing in randomizer mode, there's now an option to make pistols spawn in place of clips, so you can enjoy all of the non-fist weapons!
(No, I'm not making the fists randomly spawn.)

Downloads are in the OP.
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openroadracer
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.0 & Dehacked Defense v2.0

Post by openroadracer »

Want to say, really awesome update. However, two things about the Pistol spawning:
  • First, I was kinda hoping that it would be that all Bullet Clips, both placed in the map and dropped by enemies, would be replaced by Pistols. Mildly disappointed, but that's nothing serious.
  • The other, though, is that it seems like ONLY the vanilla DooM II Pistol is spawning, not any of the alternates. Granted, that could be caused by DeHackEd Attack being set to "Scale by Monster Tier", but I wouldn't think these two mods would interfere with each other. EDIT: Chalk this one up to PEBCAK, I had "Level Scaling" turned on.
Netheritor
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.0 & Dehacked Defense v2.0

Post by Netheritor »

Do you think it's better to add your touhou mod into this dehacked mod? Just asking.

Also some ideas;

Dehacked attack:
Final boss from corruption card
Enemies from demonsteele
Final boss from DUMP3
Enemies from endless madness
Final boss from gholazonx
Enemies from prodoomer

Dehacked defense:
Weapons from endless madness
Weapons from golden souls (any series)
Weapons from stronghold edge of chaos
Untitled
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.1 & Dehacked Defense v2.1

Post by Untitled »

openroadracer wrote:Want to say, really awesome update. However, two things about the Pistol spawning:
  • First, I was kinda hoping that it would be that all Bullet Clips, both placed in the map and dropped by enemies, would be replaced by Pistols. Mildly disappointed, but that's nothing serious.
  • The other, though, is that it seems like ONLY the vanilla DooM II Pistol is spawning, not any of the alternates. Granted, that could be caused by DeHackEd Attack being set to "Scale by Monster Tier", but I wouldn't think these two mods would interfere with each other. EDIT: Chalk this one up to PEBCAK, I had "Level Scaling" turned on.
- Fixed the first one; it was a consequence of how dropped pickups work because the entire pickup system is hilariously convoluted, but it turned out to not be too difficult to implement.
- The second one, heh, don't worry, it happens to the best of us.
Netheritor wrote:Do you think it's better to add your touhou mod into this dehacked mod? Just asking.

Also some ideas;

Dehacked attack:
Final boss from corruption card
Enemies from demonsteele
Final boss from DUMP3
Enemies from endless madness
Final boss from gholazonx
Enemies from prodoomer

Dehacked defense:
Weapons from endless madness
Weapons from golden souls (any series)
Weapons from stronghold edge of chaos
None of these are DEHACKED, which defeats the entire purpose of the mod. What you're looking for is Mix'n'match.

Anyways, Dehacked Attack 3.1 and Defense 2.1 are out, because I screwed a few things up. ONE of these days I'll release something right on the first try.

Mostly a bugfix release, but there's a few new features.

Attack:
Added deh_novileattack, which makes bosses with archvile attacks stop using said archvile attacks. It should help make some fights more accessible. They're replaced with other attacks though, so don't think it's 100% making the game easier.
The Hierophant Final Boss fight is slightly less utterly impossible, by which I mean it's MUCH easier now, by virtue of there being far fewer fake Hierophants.
The random boss fight selection option now includes Baphomet.
Defense:
Added pistol spawning support for dropped clips, so zombies drop them.
Consolidated the Struggle SSG into the main SSG since it's completely identical to the normal SSG.

Check OP for the downloads.
ExpendableRound
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.1 & Dehacked Defense v2.1

Post by ExpendableRound »

Love the idea of bringing these old DeHackEd enemies and weapons into a format that is compatable with most GZDoom-based mods. Definitly a pair of mods I would recommend.

If I may make a suggestion (and I know this request is most likely a tall order,) but I personally think that including the beastary and/or arsenal from Rowdy Rudy (1 & 2) would be a wonderful idea.
Untitled
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.1 & Dehacked Defense v2.1

Post by Untitled »

ExpendableRound wrote:Love the idea of bringing these old DeHackEd enemies and weapons into a format that is compatable with most GZDoom-based mods. Definitly a pair of mods I would recommend.

If I may make a suggestion (and I know this request is most likely a tall order,) but I personally think that including the beastary and/or arsenal from Rowdy Rudy (1 & 2) would be a wonderful idea.
The Doomkid update is currently planned to be the 4.0/3.0 update, as Doomkid's a fairly large DEHACKED user (Rowdy Rudy 1, Rowdy Rudy 2, possiblyRay Mohawk 2 (pending if I can figure out any way whatsoever to balance his ludicrously overpowered arsenal), and possibly Doomed Space Wars (in the weird niche of being a ZDoom wad that uses dehacked which is weird).

I mostly avoided it for the 3.x/2.x update because I actually wanted to release the current version within a relatively reasonable time frame. It's absolutely on the to-do list, and at some point I hope I can get around to implementing it; mostly it's just that the Doomkid update is a very large timesink of implementation purgatory (not hell, nothing's that hard it's just really long) just due to the number of actors involved.
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Spaceman333
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.1 & Dehacked Defense v2.1

Post by Spaceman333 »

Played the latest versions of both parts of the mod together today - super good!

Feels and plays like vanilla both monsters and weapons wise, but expands the variety massively. Big recommendation for others to play this too, its a well made mod! :thumb:
Randomguy7
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.1 & Dehacked Defense v2.1

Post by Randomguy7 »

Would it be at all possible to port the weapons and enemies from the Doom 2 X-Treme/Doom 2 X-Treme Gold series? They were the wads that got me into doom way back in the day and I'd love the nostalgia trip it would provide upon inclusion.
Untitled
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Re: Dehacked Attack v3.1 & Dehacked Defense v2.1

Post by Untitled »

Randomguy7 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:31 pm Would it be at all possible to port the weapons and enemies from the Doom 2 X-Treme/Doom 2 X-Treme Gold series? They were the wads that got me into doom way back in the day and I'd love the nostalgia trip it would provide upon inclusion.
They're pretty nostalgic for me to. The problem is, they don't balance well with the rest of the set:
- The numbers are just completely out of scale with the other sets (once BFGs are involved HP values get into the millions).
- Doom 2 X-Treme's bestiary, aside from the imp replacement, is really just 'really powerful normal enemies', (and said imp replacement is functionally similar to the imp aside from the X-TREME stats)
- Doom 2 X-Treme's weaponry becomes somewhat awkwardly hard to balance for similar reasons - I mean, the shotgun is just the shotgun but it fires at the same rate as the plasma rifle, the dual-wielded SSGs, etc. Even within D2XTREME itself, the BFG one-shots the cyberdemon and mastermind.
- D2X GOLD has a few more original monsters, but the HP scaling gets really out of hand, because the design of the boss enemies was that they were meant to be essentially impossible to kill without the BFG - the Mastermind replacement has 15,000,000 HP.

Even if I 'stat squish' the monsters the fundamental design issues are hard to work around; the scale of the numbers involved (e.g. in D2XGOLD the imp replacement has approximately 20x the health of a normal imp, the cyberdemon as 400x as much health as much health as a normal cyberdemon) makes it hard to capture the feeling of the original wads.

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