[RELEASE] DN3DooM - update v.1.08b

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theroguemonk
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by theroguemonk »

theroguemonk wrote:the original duke nukem 3d monsters were too bullet spongey .... this mod is way better HOWEVER can you try to balance it again because they die far too easy...
i dont want them to be as hard an spongey as original duke nukem 3d but somewhere in the middle , my biggest issue is with the pig cops

also are the enemy sprites a bit smaller then usual?
sorry for double posting i was confused .... also okay i will now try to turn of head shots...

okay pig cops take 2 shots to kill now .. if i remember right that is the same as original game right? so its actually the head shots making it easier...
kadkad14
Posts: 37
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kadkad14 »

Found a bug. Octabrains float strangely but only in small spaces.
Spoiler:
User avatar
Xim
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:46 pm
Location: somewhere with trees

Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by Xim »

Played a little bit of this and I really like it. It's got better balance for Doom maps than most other Duke themed mods. I like how you've kept the health and armor bonuses.
3336655445
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by 3336655445 »

good luck in developing kipo
kipo
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kipo »

Thanks everyone for the kind words and bug reports (they are dully noted for future revisions).
3336655445 wrote: 3. It seems to me that the place of blue could be made by a brighter gray
At first I had it with a brighter gray, but it turns out that with the heat of the battle it was a chore to remember which tone of gray meant what, so I had to change it to a different color altogether. Maybe blue is not the best option but since pigcops drop it too and they wear blue, so I figured it would make sense.
3336655445
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by 3336655445 »

kipo wrote:Thanks everyone for the kind words and bug reports (they are dully noted for future revisions).
3336655445 wrote: 3. It seems to me that the place of blue could be made by a brighter gray
At first I had it with a brighter gray, but it turns out that with the heat of the battle it was a chore to remember which tone of gray meant what, so I had to change it to a different color altogether. Maybe blue is not the best option but since pigcops drop it too and they wear blue, so I figured it would make sense.
It makes sense. Well then make the blue less bright
3336655445
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by 3336655445 »

but it's still cool tc despite some things
kipo
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kipo »

Just a small update from the feedback I've been getting (updated link in the first post):

v1.01:
Fixed overlapping duke talk
Added a toggle in options to enable/disable 3d gore
Added jumping and jetpack sprites for duke
Added screen tint effect when hit by octabrain's attack
Added new intermission screen (from Nuke Town)
Fixed LEST ROCK text in skill setting
Improved placement for floating enemies to prevent weird idle animation
Blue armor less blue (had it on bright for some reason)
Other minor bugs/improvements
kadkad14
Posts: 37
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kadkad14 »

Sorry for bothering you again.

I think I found another few bugs.
Enemies sometimes have long delay between dying and receiving damage.
Spoiler:
Sometimes textures look wrong. Can you make texture pack togglable?
Spoiler:
I have some suggestions as well:
Default player movement needs to be replaced to a Build Engine movement style.
Like this:
Spoiler:
Original game has special screen effect when you receive damage from acid pool/blood:
Spoiler:
Duke's dead bodies need to be replaced to vanilla "doomed space marine".

I think these monsters are outdated.
Spoiler:
Again, thank you for your work!

P.S.
I understand that this can be too complex.
So here's another idea for intro:
Spoiler:
Last edited by kadkad14 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kipo
Posts: 133
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kipo »

kadkad14 wrote:Enemies sometimes have long delay between dying and receiving damage.
That's not really a bug, for some reason Don Ramon had it this way on purpose on the troopers. I thought Duke's troopers had similar behaviour so I left it. It's like sometimes they can walk a little and then die (random, not always). Can you confirm this doesn't happen in duke3d?
Sometimes textures look wrong. Can you make texture pack togglable?
Mmm definitively unwanted behaviour. Gonna have to think for some alternative, maybe releasing two versions (one without the texture pack), or a version that can be compatible with the texture pack loading as a different mod (for some reason this wasn't working in my initial tries that's why I merged it, but I can give it another shot).
Default player movement needs to be replaced to a Build Engine movement style.
I see those mods are universal, so it should work if you apply any of those mods alongside with my mod, right? If so, it's better to do it that way, and I can list them as the recommended mods.
Original game has special screen effect when you receive damage from acid pool/blood
Definitively something I should look into.
Duke's dead bodies need to be replaced to vanilla "doomed space marine".
Not really, those corpses should reflect the character you are using (duke). Besides, the doomed space marine sprite is not lying on the ground, so it would block the view more often than not. Plus I already added that sprite somewhere, so you should be able to find that corpe through the game in better locations.
I think these monsters are outdated.
I can see the green octabrain making more sense, since is a different color and can have a green seeker attack (easily identifiable from the others), plus I think I saw that one in gzdoom somewhere so is just a sprite swap.
About the other battlelords, those options are just the same battlelord sentry with a different sprite. The robot is a completely different enemy, made of metal. If I were to replace it, it'd better be for some other metal medium size enemy, to make it different from the other sentrys.
I understand that this can be too complex.
So here's another idea for intro
That picture looks cool, gonna have to look into that.

Thx for the feedback!
kadkad14
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:39 am

Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kadkad14 »

That's not really a bug, for some reason Don Ramon had it this way on purpose on the troopers. I thought Duke's troopers had similar behavior so I left it. It's like sometimes they can walk a little and then die (random, not always). Can you confirm this doesn't happen in duke3d?]
I see. Now I understand it properly.
Maybe it's less noticeable in the original game.
Hmm, definitively unwanted behavior. Gonna have to think for some alternative, maybe releasing two versions (one without the texture pack), or a version that can be compatible with the texture pack loading as a different mod (for some reason this wasn't working in my initial tries that's why I merged it, but I can give it another shot).
You can also disable duke music in the second version of the mod to make it compatible with custom midis.
I see those mods are universal, so it should work if you apply any of those mods alongside with my mod, right? If so, it's better to do it that way, and I can list them as the recommended mods.
There is a mod called NTMAI that makes vanilla doom look more like a Build Engine game and it has its own player movement style.
That's why I was thinking the same about your mod too.
I agree about universal mods, so no problem here.
Not really, those corpses should reflect the character you are using (duke). Besides, the doomed space marine sprite is not lying on the ground, so it would block the view more often than not. Plus I already added that sprite somewhere, so you should be able to find that corpe through the game in better locations.
I was referring to vanilla marine corpses that appear on various levels from classic doom.
I can see the green octabrain making more sense, since is a different color and can have a green seeker attack (easily identifiable from the others), plus I think I saw that one in gzdoom somewhere so is just a sprite swap.
About the other battlelords, those options are just the same battlelord sentry with a different sprite. The robot is a completely different enemy, made of metal. If I were to replace it, it'd better be for some other metal medium size enemy, to make it different from the other sentrys.
Hmm, I didn't think about monster diversity. I was thinking they fit original theme.
Spoiler:
I found some bugs:
Spoiler:
Here are some another suggestions:
1.The second Octabrain should replace pain elemental while other monsters should be removed from this slot.
Otherwise It could break some maps.
2. Main menu pic doesn't support 16:9. It needs to be replaced.
3. Original game has this effect when you take damage.
Spoiler:
4. Why some of the enemies are "dancing"? IMO motionless variant is better.
Spoiler:
5. You can't shrink/freeze alien robot. Is this intentional?
6. Monsters from original game can change their movement speed.
Spoiler:
7. Mouthless Octabrain will still try to bite you. So It indeed needs to be replaced.

I completely forgot to say that MrRamon's mod has correct font colors and animated main menu.
Strange, I didn't notice it at first.

Sorry for the wall of text and for my bad English.
I just want to help.

P.S.
Spoiler:
Edit:
-Removed pointless suggestion.
-Reported few bugs.
-Added fixed voice files.
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Last edited by kadkad14 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
kipo
Posts: 133
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kipo »

Thanks man I added your fixed voice files and have the following changes already done (not releasing it yet):
- Changed psychobrain sprite for the "octabrain purple gem" (the other green one wasn't that cool and having a green missile didn't look nice either).
- Adjusted duke size (he was too big compared to the others, noticeable in coop and 3rd person view).

I'll prepare a todo list based on your input in a more detailed response later.
kadkad14
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:39 am

Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kadkad14 »

That's great to hear!

Meanwhile I found few bugs:
1. On some rare occasions enforcer and protector drone can drop two weapons instead of one.
2. All "alien" type of enemies including slimers/eggs produce red blood upon death.
Spoiler:
A few suggestions:
1. Head shot damage should be nerfed.
2. There should be less ammo. Maybe deceasing drop chances could work.
It can be overkill sometimes:
Spoiler:
3. Green gore should be a little darker.
4. I think Fat Commander's rockets are a bit faster in original game. Maybe I'm wrong.

Edit:
-added possible blood/gore variants for "alien" type of enemies.
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kipo
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Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kipo »

Ok thanks for the feedback, it's nice to receive input from another duke fan, because I tried to cover most aspects but there's details that I missed or forgot.

Here's my TODO list for the next release:
DONE
- Changed psychobrain sprite for the "octabrain purple gem", and made him more agressive.
- Adjusted duke size.
- Fixed low quality duke voice files.
- Adjusted enemy rocket speeds.
HIGH PRIORITY
- Don't include the texture pack, but make it compatible to load it as another mod (which it is).
- Don't include duke's midis (you can load other mod with duke music or any music mod you want).
- Green screen damage effect from acid blood, nukage.
- Red screen damage effect.
- Fix floating enemies flying constantly higher to the sky on idle
MEDIUM PRIORITY (does not mean I'll be implementing it or changing it, I'll first check to see if it's doable and worth it, and better for the gameplay)
- Alternatives for robotalien (terminator or mech look cool but also hard to implement), or remove it altogether.
- Better Intro screen
- Make firefly move on idle OR make all enemies static on idle (how is it done in duke 3d?, do they move or are they static?)
- Monsters can change movement speed (how does it work in duke?, do they chance speed based on distance from the player? or is it random? or is it both based on distance and random?)
- Better font letters and color for main menu
- Check headshot damage, right now it's x4 damage like the universal HS mod (my implementation is based on it after all)
LOW PRIORITY FOR NOW (most likely not worth the effort)
- Animated intermission screen

Some answers:
- Doomed spaced marine replacing the vanilla marine corpses is not the best option, it may block the view, and you can already find him replacing some gore decorations (along with serious sam). Besides it's cooler to think they are other dukes that died there (if that makes sense).
- Octabrains replacing pain elementals is not a good option, because the pain elementals are considered mini bosses in oblige which seem fitting for the boss sentrys, and makes sense since you don't encounter them much in the original game and wads. Plus I have some code to detect if they are not properly placed on the map to replace them with something else.
- You can't shrink the Alien Robot because it's metal (which is weird because you can expand him, I know).
- About the enemies dropping a weapon and ammo at once, is not a bug, because sadly in doom you can define a dropitem but if you define more they don't cancel each other (so you can have all the dropitems appearing at once). And I need them (enforcers and protectors) to drop a weapon sometimes (especially the protectors because there's no other way to get a shrinker/expander).
- The red blood decals on green-blooded aliens is a known bug, but I've tried many approaches to correct it without success that I've given up for now.
- About enemies dropping less ammo, is not necessary is a good thing, since now the pistol and chaingun don't share the same ammo type, so it could cause scarcity. And in doom you always get ammo from enemies, so the weapon and ammo placements in the maps in taking this into consideration.
- I cannot reproduce the bug: killing multiple enemies by killing one (I can only think the first one is dying and the next bullet is passing through him to the next enemy in line while the first is still in its dying animation).
- About having the green gore darker, are you sure? I believe it is the same color as in duke's grp (could be wrong).
kadkad14
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:39 am

Re: [RELEASE] DN3DooM

Post by kadkad14 »

Thanks for such detailed response.
- Alternatives for robotalien
There is also cyber enforcer and armored pig (because it's metallic and "heavy").
or remove it altogether.
I think it's the best option.
- Make firefly move on idle OR make all enemies static on idle (how is it done in duke 3d?, do they move or are they static?)
Yes, they are all static in Duke3D.
- Monsters can change movement speed (how does it work in duke?, do they chance speed based on distance from the player? or is it random? or is it both based on distance and random?)
I think it's more based on a distance. Also enemy starts to retreat if you are too close to it.
- Check headshot damage, right now it's x4 damage like the universal HS mod (my implementation is based on it after all)
It can be overkill when you get ripper. Even the strongest enemies die pretty quick.
- Doomed spaced marine replacing the vanilla marine corpses is not the best option, it may block the view, and you can already find him replacing some gore decorations (along with serious sam). Besides it's cooler to think they are other dukes that died there (if that makes sense).
I was talking about this one:
Spoiler:
- The red blood decals on green-blooded aliens is a known bug, but I've tried many approaches to correct it without success that I've given up for now.
I see. By the way, they indeed have green blood in Duke3D:
Spoiler:
And in doom you always get ammo from enemies, so the weapon and ammo placements in the maps in taking this into consideration.
Duke3D compensates rare drop chances by having more ammo per box.
Meanwhile you get +10 ammo from classic chaingun zombie vs +50 ammo from enforcer.
- I cannot reproduce the bug
Maybe the hitbox is too large. At least I have never seen something like this in BD (i think it's a good example).
I believe it is the same color as in duke's grp
I tried to verify this. It appears that duke.grp have red gore only:
Spoiler:
Also, Mr.Ramon uses darker gore variant in his latest version of the mod.
Last edited by kadkad14 on Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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