[0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

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sinisterseed
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[0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by sinisterseed »

Old bug major issue. Re-posting for visibility and awareness (I'm getting a little bored of this line honestly :v ).

Anyway, jokes aside, there is a tank required to blow up a barrier after the forest segment of Darkwoods of the Serpent level. The issue here is that this tank, after getting repaired, can still break. I've cross-checked this in Redux and it never, ever breaks after getting fixed there. It stays fixed permanently (and so do the rest of repairable machines in the game), whereas in Raze after firing a couple of shots it breaks, being forced to repair it again - only that there is no other repair kit on the map. At most the player can use 2 kits at this point in the game, if they choose not to repair the optional mobile turrets on the second level. But even so, after firing the tank a few more times it will break again.

The barrier can be blown up using grenades and missiles too - but what if the player has none of that? They're few and far between at this point in the game.

So in short, without any extra circle-jerking, this tank needs fixing because it can potentially lead to a softlock. This behavior is also inconsistent across ports - it never, ever occurs in Redux.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Graf Zahl »

So is this something Redux fixed? What do the other ports say?
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by sinisterseed »

Graf Zahl wrote:So is this something Redux fixed? What do the other ports say?
In SWP it never seems to break either, but in VoidSW it broke again immediately.

So this is probably inherited from VoidSW. This never occurs in both Redux and SWP, and no doubt, it never should in the first place.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Graf Zahl »

Ok, good to know.Looks to me that SWP fixed this and the fix got inherited by Redux, but since VoidSW does not inherit from SWP it never got it.
But now I need to find out where the code for this is located...
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Graf Zahl »

I cannot find anything in the source code, so sorry, unless someone gives me some pointers where to look this is on hold.
I looked through all weapon, player and moveable sector code but nothing apparent was to be found.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by sinisterseed »

Hm, damn, no bueno then.

Are there no vehicles or something to that effect in the code?
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Manuel-K »

lowskill. wrote:Hm, damn, no bueno then.

Are there no vehicles or something to that effect in the code?
The vehicles are sector objects. You can find a place to start looking by searching for SOBJ_BROKEN in the respective source codes.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Gammli »

This is not a bug, the tank breaks in Redux just the same: https://streamable.com/kahv6

It also does this in DOS Shadow Warrior. In fact the vehicles are generally intended to be breakable, and trying to "fix" this would be a mistake in my opinion.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by sinisterseed »

Gammli wrote:This is not a bug, the tank breaks in Redux just the same: https://streamable.com/kahv6

It also does this in DOS Shadow Warrior. In fact the vehicles are generally intended to be breakable, and trying to "fix" this would be a mistake in my opinion.
Well, yes, duh, because you broke it... I already know you can do that, and that's intended behavior for sure.

Okay then, let me make this extremely clear so that there can be no room for misunderstanding:

What I am talking about is the tank breaking all by itself with use. After holding fire for a few seconds it just breaks again currently, which I am confident is not intended considering the consequences this can have, while in Redux and SWP this never seems to happen. I fired the tank without pause for a couple of minutes in both and it never broke, while in Raze and VoidSW it breaks after just a couple of seconds of normal usage without taking/dealing any damage to it.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Manuel-K »

It might be an issue of splash damage.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by sinisterseed »

Manuel-K wrote:It might be an issue of splash damage.
Hm, but splash damage from what?

It breaks even when I go in the opposite corner of the area and start firing it with nothing/no one around me.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Gammli »

lowskill. wrote:
Gammli wrote:This is not a bug, the tank breaks in Redux just the same: https://streamable.com/kahv6

It also does this in DOS Shadow Warrior. In fact the vehicles are generally intended to be breakable, and trying to "fix" this would be a mistake in my opinion.
Well, yes, duh, because you broke it... I already know you can do that, and that's intended behavior for sure.

Okay then, let me make this extremely clear so that there can be no room for misunderstanding:

What I am talking about is the tank breaking all by itself with use. After holding fire for a few seconds it just breaks again currently, which I am confident is not intended considering the consequences this can have, while in Redux and SWP this never seems to happen. I fired the tank without pause for a couple of minutes in both and it never broke, while in Raze and VoidSW it breaks after just a couple of seconds of normal usage without taking/dealing any damage to it.
Okay I tested it with VoidSW and the issue is that the tank shells are hitting the tank itself.
This is still not something that Redux fixed because this worked correctly in DOS Shadow Warrior. Much rather it's a bug that VoidSW introduced.

Edit: Here's a video that demonstrates it clearly, taken in VoidSW r8620: https://streamable.com/zdej4
Last edited by Gammli on Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by sinisterseed »

That's very useful, thanks :). But damn, we really are in Build wonderland it seems...

...how did something like this get introduced in VoidSW when in DOS itself it wasn't present...
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by Graf Zahl »

Who knows? Maybe some changes in the low level code that isn't specific to the game?
But it still leaves me in the same situation, I cannot find what's responsible, making it hard to debug.
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Re: [0.4.1] [SW] Darkwoods tank can break multiple times

Post by sinisterseed »

Gammli wrote:Edit: Here's a video that demonstrates it clearly, taken in VoidSW r8620: https://streamable.com/zdej4
Wow.

Amazing. Truly outstanding.

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