[v2.0] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

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MFG38
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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Post by MFG38 »

Someone64 wrote:So I played some of this mod and I have to say that I'm as shocked with the design decisions with normal weapon use as Somagu is. The biggest issue here is that Doom maps were not designed for them to work like this. The way you made weapon range work in itself is totally fine... if the maps were designed with these weapon mechanics in mind (though personally this kind of range system irks me regardless). The problem is that a ton of Doom maps were designed with the fact that you can use Doom's vanilla weapons with their effective range just like the vanilla game and the ammo, monster placement, weapon placement, etc are balanced with this fact. This is an issue with almost all mods to varying degrees but most mods make an effort to make things playable despite their design differences. Unfortunately, playing SGD can be impossible in some circumstances because your idea of weapon roles being forced into the design is entirely incompatible with many megawads.

A major example of this is the shotgun and SSG. In vanilla Doom you can literally use the shotgun to snipe enemies at pretty long ranges due to the low spread. The SSG can be used for crowd control of zombies at decent range. Both of these functions are rendered impossible due to SGD's range limitations. Another example is the chaingun. I understand the pistol replacement is meant to work as the sniper but often times, a map will just provide you with a chaingun to tap fire with which in vanilla, works fine as a sniper but just like the shotguns it has bafflingly short range.

There's a good reason games in general don't implement range the way this game does, too. There's a difference between making a weapon ineffective to use at range and making it literally impossible to use at range and making it impossible by making your hitscans vanish beyond a certain point is frustrating and really contrived. That's why shot spread exists as a mechanic and you can just make a weapon function badly at range by increasing its spread appropriately.

Sorry to sound harsh about my criticism but I really do like the idea of this mod. It's just that at the moment it can be borderline unplayable except in very specific circumstances where the map just so happens to fit it perfectly. Even if you made maps specifically for this mod it's still too frustrating to play.

Lastly, I have a minor issue with the feat based upgrade system which is that the mod is not transparent about this mechanic in terms of what enemies to kill, how many you already have killed, and how close you are to getting an upgrade. You should probably put this in the HUD or delegate this to a bind that brings up a screen that shows this.
I must admit that the main point of your criticism is completely understandable. But I feel I should explain why I designed the shotguns (and really, any weapon in the mod) the way they behave in the mod: you see, I didn't want the player to be able to use any weapon of their choosing in all possible combat scenarios. That is to say, the weapons are intentionally situational. The Rifle, as you figured, is chiefly intended for long-range work alongside the Argent Rifle. The shotguns, on the other hand, are meant for dealing with enemies at closer proximity, hence their limited range. And as disappointing as I know this will most likely sound, that's unlikely to change at this point. If I make any changes to the behavior of any weapons, they're only going to be minor tweaks. Buffing the shotguns to the point where you can snipe an enemy across the map with them isn't included in my plans.

Secondly, the reason the mod hasn't been transparent about the kill counts required for the upgrades thus far is because in a sense, I want to keep the player in suspense. Telling the player explicitly which upgrade they're likely to acquire next and how far they are from acquiring it would ruin the surprise. I've been contemplating adding a couple of help screens to sort of document the weapons and the upgrades available for each of them, though, which would be a v2.0 addition if it were to happen. But an in-game screen to display progress towards the upgrades is unfortunately unlikely, because once again, I want to retain at least that element of surprise.

With all that said, I do appreciate you giving SGD a spin. And I hope my explanations behind some of the design decisions I made are satisfactory.
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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Post by Captain J »

The gauge that allows you to do the special move and is different depends on how much you have is very clever and impressive. However, there are few problems that makes the player rather stagnant and indifferent:

First of all, the Shotguns in this mod works quite differently: It spreads much more widely, deals crapton of damage up close... And the bullets vanish in certain range. Of course, it's supposed to be weak and inaccurate in long-range. Also you can easily kill some strong mooks in point blank. But the range is unreasonably short, making both shotguns useless in most of the long-range firefight. I felt so underpowered when i got hit by a shotgun guy that drops the same shotgun i have in long distance.

Second, i think adding more special effects to each special moves would be nice. Since it's just using average sound effects we all know and love.

Third, some weapons' special move prevents you to move. It's about using the move wisely, but i honestly think it just don't go well with Vanilla Doom Firefight: Where the thing mostly goes hectic.


Despite all the problems, i actually enjoyed this mod and i think the concept is very clever and make it exciting!
Last edited by Captain J on Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MFG38
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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Post by MFG38 »

Captain J wrote:some weapons' special move prevents you stop moving. It's about using the move wisely, but i honestly think it just don't go well with Vanilla Doom Firefight: Where the thing mostly goes hectic.
That's an intentional design choice, so as to balance out some of the more powerful finishers. You're granted a brief period of invulnerability while a finisher is being performed anyway, so you can witness them in all their glory without the danger of dying in the middle of executing them.
Captain J wrote:Despite all the problems, i actually enjoyed this mod and i think the concept is very clever and make it exciting!
Thanks! c:
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MFG38
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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Post by MFG38 »

It's been another preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty long while since I posted an update of any sort over here, but I figured now if ever would be a good time to let those who haven't completely forgotten about SGD know that work on v2.0 is still ongoing. The finish line looms decently close, though, and it may not take much longer for the new build to be finished. In fact, the finisher reworks are almost done, sans one last finisher rework. Once I get the last finisher rework in, the bulk of the remaining work henceforth will be converting the remaining parts of the ACS code to ZScript and fixing any game-breaking bugs I stumble upon.

I may or may not release a preview build of sorts once I implement the last finisher rework so that people can enjoy the new finishers without having to wait an indefinite amount of time for the real v2.0. If I do, you can expect it within the next week or two. I should emphasize, however, that the preview build, if I do end up releasing it, will primarily be released for the purpose of collecting feedback about the new finishers and reporting bugs that may have occurred. Chances are that the new finishers will see further tweaking, and there will likely be bugs of varying degrees of nastiness. For that reason, updating to v2.0 will be strongly recommended as soon as it comes out.

At any rate, I hope you're as excited as I am! Possible v2.0 preview build coming sometime this month - if not, the real v2.0 will most likely be ready to go before 2023.
Spoiler:
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MFG38
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New build: v2.0-pre-r358

Post by MFG38 »

Yet another update regarding v2.0 (I need to stop being this radio-silent about it): work is still ongoing but reaching a point I can confidently call "nearing the finish line". With the latest changes I just made, the biggest thing left to do at this point is rewriting the HUD into ZScript. And fixing a few nasty bugs.

So as to celebrate the milestone, I decided to go ahead and release the latest dev build of SGD v2.0 - numbered v2.0-pre-r358 - as a preview of sorts. You can download it on ModDB by following this link: https://www.moddb.com/mods/satanic-game ... 0-pre-r358

Highlights of the new release:
  • Reworked finishers - I'll admit that I was never entirely happy with the finishers in the 1.x versions of SGD, hence I took on the task of reworking them for v2.0. Almost all finishers have been reworked, with only a few left mostly intact. (I say "mostly" because even in the finishers I decided were good to keep, I did some tweaks in their implementations.) Decimate your foes with all-new finishers such as railgun-like slugs, Argent bombs and the power to briefly stop the flow of time!
  • Less ACS, more ZScript - With the exception of the feat system, all systems that were previously powered by ACS have been converted over to ZScript. I mostly did this as an exercise in learning more about the intricacies of ZScript, but with some luck, that exercise will also have resulted in marginally better performance across the board.
  • "Classic powerups" mode - For those who want their gameplay experience to be that much closer to vanilla, SGD v2.0 introduces an option that brings back the classic Doom powerups.
  • Finnish localization (with possibly more to follow) - 'Nuff said.
This should go without saying, but this release isn't the full release of v2.0 and shouldn't be treated as one. Some work still remains to be done for the full v2.0 release, and bugs are likely to occur. If anything, I released this build mainly for feedback collecting purposes. You should not expect this version to be fully polished, because it isn't - but if you're fine with knowing that and want to play an early release, go ahead and download the dev build. I more or less know where there are still bugs to fix, but feel free to report any bugs you come across regardless.
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Zonky
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Re: [v2.0 SOON(ish)!] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Post by Zonky »

This mod is pretty damn neat and has a good bit of potential, only thing I would suggest is giving the guns more beefy sounds because they kinda sound like airsoft guns atm. Other than that when you think of a first mod you don't think it would be this interesting and engaging, for sure keeping an eye on this :mrgreen:
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MFG38
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v2.0 SOON actually seriously for real no joke

Post by MFG38 »

Alright, I know I've been saying this for the past uhh... three years or so and spectacularly failing to deliver in that time, but this time, I'm not bullshitting you when I say that SGD v2.0 is finally actually seriously coming very very very very VERY soon. Just a couple things left to do, one of which is proving to be a real pesky little problem, but I'm hopeful and optimistic that it'll get sorted out in a timely manner. I'm literal inches away from the finish line - I will get there and you will see SGD v2.0 before the end of this year.

Stay tuned.
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Re: [v2.0 SOON(ish)!] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Post by Starman the Blaziken »

Woo-hoo :)
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MFG38
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Re: [v2.0] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Post by MFG38 »

It took an eternity and a half, but v2.0 of Satanic Gameshow Deluxe is finally released! Told you I wasn't bullshitting. Get it from the following places (links have also been updated in the OP):
ModDB | GitHub

Nearly three years of work (and procrastination) went into this build, and having it out the door after all that time is honestly an indescribably huge relief. I hope you all enjoy playing it as much as I enjoyed working on it. Full changelog from v1.4 to this version is in the spoiler below.
Spoiler:

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