UMDF Limits?

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UMDF Limits?

Postby RastaManGames » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:24 am

For some reason i am trying recreate my old-good town from childhood.
I must know, if is there any UMDF limits, like "not more, that x vertexes, y lines, z linedefs, n sectors" and etc.
What can break first: GZDoom or GZDoom Builder from big amount of those?

Last edited by RastaManGames on Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby Gez » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:09 am

With 32-bit integers, you're allowed four billion indices, so you can expect to be able to load a map with at least up to four billion vertices, lines, sides, sectors and so on.

It's likely the limit you'll encounter first is your operating system's limit for how large an individual file can be; for example if your harddrive is in FAT32 format then four gigabytes is the limit. Also note that ZIP software may not work right when trying to compress a file that is larger than four gigabytes, for the same reason: 4 294 967 295 is the largest integer value you can express with 32 bits.

The UDMF format in itself is limitless. Since everything is expressed as text, with no fixed size for values, you could very well have a UDMF map where a line refers to a vertex number 6000000000000000000. It's a value you can represent with a text string (as proof, I just typed it) so it can be saved. And if the text file is long enough, it may also have that many vertex definitions in it, too. It's just likely that most software would choke trying to load something that large.
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby phantombeta » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:22 am

You're more likely to encounter size limits. On older versions of (G)ZDoom, you'll encounter glitches if you put anything close to -32768 or 32767 on any axis, or if the map is too big. This is because GZDoom used to use fixed-point maths, which have static, limited precision. Newer versions should be less affected by these issues, as they use floating-point maths, which have much more precision than fixed-point.
You're more likely to encounter problems with the nodebuilder, at least with ZDBSP, as it still uses fixed-point maths IIRC.
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby RastaManGames » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:27 am

Oh... I am really amused right now. It's good and fearsome in the same time...
Is there any nodebuilder, that can handle floating-point math IIRC? D:
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby RastaManGames » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:36 pm

Well... I guess my map is completely dead... Isn't?



Your warning was right. NodeBuilder just died...
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby Nash » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:20 pm

I wonder how difficult would it be to upgrade ZDBSP to not use fixed point anymore?

(No doubt it's not easy, otherwise it would have already been done - I'm just curious what would be involved technically)
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby RastaManGames » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:34 am

Today is my lucky day.
I saw various NodeBuilder errors (like "NodeBuilder can't build nodes for this map" or "Verticles count in ZNODES lump doesn't match with map's verticles count" or even "ZGL3 node format is not supported"...
But, for some reason, after relaunching GZDB and enabling node building only in playtest, i got random success.



This is my biggest map in GZDB and it's almost done.
I forget about entire city, because now i am running on the very thin ice.
Now i am want to done just micro-district with some buildings nearby.

Sorry for my crazy and nut idea... I am not blaming anyone.
Nobody expected this software for such loads..
I hope i can done this map without any big troubles.

P.S.: Sorry for big off-top...
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby Kappes Buur » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:16 am

When you say that you run into size limits, out of curiosity, what are the map specs?

For example:
Spoiler:
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby RastaManGames » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:49 am

Well... I don't know exactly, this is big count or not... But here...
Spoiler: "This is statistic of my map.."

This, what i saw several times a few hours ago...
Spoiler: "Scary..."

For some reason, few launches of map (in builded *pk3) are fine, but then i saw this mess...
Spoiler: "Why..."
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby Kappes Buur » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:22 am

It is difficult to tell from your first screenshot (ca 832 mus across) if you are running into the map size limit or not.
If a map measures more than 32K mus in any direction, you will get errors similar to what you show in the second
screenshot.

Otherwise, your map specs are not that bad.
Try running your map through the Map Analyzer (F4) to see if something untowards has crept into the map.
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby RastaManGames » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:44 pm

Okay. According to your advise about border of map, i moved working zone to the origin center.
This part of map was near borders, because at first i want make full city...
I hope this gonna help me, because i am almost done with his damned map...
Spoiler: "Image."
Last edited by RastaManGames on Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby Kappes Buur » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:51 pm

Am I seeing this correctly?
A linedef, bordering a void, pointing into the void? And that in several spots.

Spoiler:


I thought that was impossible with an editor like GZDBBF.
If correct, how did you manage that? :D
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Re: UMDF Limits?

Postby RastaManGames » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:09 am

I am not novice in that kind of mapping and no. There is no void inside of map. See this:
Spoiler:

This line make a mistaken visibility of her face at the big distance.
Spoiler:

My default scale is 8px and i am trying to do this very accurate and clear.
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