English thread. Why not?

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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Enjay » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:26 pm

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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby NeuralStunner » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:02 pm

(Late reply.)
Graf Zahl wrote:
Gez wrote:It's basic grammar,
... which I can tell from my own experiences at school a lot of people have difficulty comprehending.
I've always wanted to learn German, and i laugh whenever I see English speakers talking about how horrible it is.

English has a massive list of spelling and grammar rules which it's constantly breaking. Take the old rhyme*: "I before E, except after C, unless [list of exceptions]". Or the completely arbitrary rules of doubling consonants for suffices: "vetted", "targetted". (The latter is "incorrect" in US English, at least.) Somehow I doubt things would get any better if I switched to UK English... it's probably suffered a lot of backwash from its Colonial derivation.

... Anyway, I try not to be too hard on non-native speakers. Still amusing being told "bare with me" though. We hardly know each other, sir. :P


* Fun fact: The correct spelling is "rime". It only got that weird R-H-Y thing through association with the word "rhythm".
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Enjay » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:38 am

English is a mess (an entertaining and fascinating one), having gotten so many words from so many places and, as you say, backwash from colonial derivations etc etc.

just another few quick examples:

Context is everything...
I am going to row a boat. (row rhymes with oh)
I am going to have a row with my wife. (row rhymes with cow)

Alternatives...
Swap and swop are both acceptable and mean the same thing.

ough...
Through
Though
Thought
Rough
Cough
Bough

all spelled with ough but all have a different sound
(oo, oh, aught, uff, off, ow respectively)
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Reactor » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:53 am

Heh, be thankful English is already evolved from that "Ye Olde Englishe" what I mentioned before! Now THAT was a total mess indeed, with all those runic letters and confusing vowels before The Great Vowel Shift! Having to learn a few minimal pairs is much easier :)
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Reactor » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:01 pm

A little help would be required :) What's the key difference between "compulsory", "obligatory" and "mandatory"? Hungarian language has only 1 word for all of these. It's something similar like the "obtain-acquire-grab" was?
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby NeuralStunner » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:11 pm

The way I understand it:
Compulsory: Required by force or threat.*
Obligatory: Required by honor, etiquette, or prior agreement.
Mandatory: Required by rule or law.

Giving the mugger your money is compulsory. Paying your waiter a tip is obligatory. Paying your taxes is mandatory (and to an extent compulsory :P ).

* I've often seen rules/policies referred to as "compulsory". It makes little sense in that context, unless the rule is stupid to begin with.
Last edited by NeuralStunner on Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Reactor » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:13 pm

I see, so there is indeed a difference between! Looks like I'm gonna have to correct some of the literature I wrote. The only common thing is "necessity" in them.
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Gez » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:18 am

You can look at the related words: compulsion, obligation, mandate.
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Reactor » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:32 pm

This one is kinda funny, lol :) Why is the light blue colour called "cyan"? Does it have to do anything with toxic cyanide stuff?
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Gez » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:35 pm

Other way around.

Cyan comes from the Ancient Greek word κύανος, which means a metallic or blue sheen. A more faithful transliteration would be kuanos, but Romans thought the Greek u sound (same as French u or German ü, doesn't exist in English) was an i sound, so that's why y is pronounced like an i (even called "Grecian i" in French, heh). And the soft/hard c sound is another problem as well. Anyway, kuanos became cyanos became cyan, and it means blue. Mystery solved.

How about cyanide, then? Well, these chemicals are called that because they're blue. Simple. Okay, more precisely, their main use was besides poisoning people was making a blue pigment.
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Ravick » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:55 pm

Hi there. I'm wondering the better/more natural way to say that a door is locked by a key. Could I say 'it is key locked'? Or would it sound more natural saying 'it is locked by a key'? Or there is no difference at all?




Gez wrote: ü, doesn't exist in English


Oh, it was cut from brazilian Portuguese a few years ago. Man, how I miss this little smile! :'(
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Gez » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:56 pm

Saying it's locked is normally enough, since by definition locks use keys.

What is the purpose of the message? Is it to tell the player they need a specific key ("this door is unlocked by the ruby key"), that the door will not open at all (for example, it's a fake door to simulate a town without having to create a few dozen house interiors) then you should use words like barred or jammed to convey there's no unlocking possible in game, or is it that opposite to the usual situation, the door is open and the player needs a key to close it securely?
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Ravick » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:14 pm

It is a door that requires one of some custom keys. Doom's keys looks like 'keycards', and I've included some more normal looking metal keys, so 'keycard' and 'key' are different things in this mod. There are more than one 'normal' keys, the message should let player aware that one of them would open it, but not specifically wich one. I mean, it should say that the door is locked by a key instead of a keycard.
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Gez » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:17 pm

"This door requires the bronze key" or whatever. Your message should tell which key precisely is required rather than just the key type. "You need a keycard to open this door" is frustrating, while "you need the blue keycard to open this door" is clear.
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Re: English thread. Why not?

Postby Reactor » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:53 pm

As always, Gez is right :) a simple message saying "You need the bronze key" should be more than enough. Uh, if you wanna signify what key is for what door, perhaps colour their locks to match the key it requires. Bronze door with a keyhole made of bronze, should work nicely. As for access cards, the Duke3D-method is what I like the best.

To label doors without a keyhole, the Resident Evil-style messages should do it. For instance: "It is locked by a system." "This door is welded shut." "There is not enough power for it." This could also help the player a little in large, complex levels to avoid the "meson battery problem".
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