[WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.7c

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Deii
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5 Alpha Release

Post by Deii »

Yep, this is really good stuff alright. Been playing it for a while now and I can't say that I found a single bug or balancing issue - though I will admit my masochistic side wants bullets and pellets to go FASTER for some reason. Kinda wish we had a few more guns to play with, perhaps through a new class in order to keep retain the plug-n-play nature of the mod?

Also spooky zambambo noises are spooky.
Someone64
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5 Alpha Release

Post by Someone64 »

This mod reminds me a lot of Never Breaking Orbit (Vaecruis's arcadey 1 hit death projectile weapons only Doom mod) and I like it quite a lot. As people have said the weapons feel absolutely wonderful and I really love the sawblade's feel and animations. I also find the smg enemies' gibbering amusing. What are they supposed to be saying anyway?

Some criticisms: I feel like the projectiles would look more appealing as yellow tracers or perhaps nails instead of looking like a bunch of huge black BBs. Also I hope something like a pistol comes soon as I don't like the idea of starting with a shotgun which can break some map balance. Also isn't it a bit unbalanced when chaingunners can drop gatling guns? Also they can have difficulty firing at you because they would stand with a wall covering their chaingun quite often. Probably applies to similarly done enemies as well.
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5 Alpha Release

Post by Matt »

Yellow tracers on those bullets (which I think is already on the OP to-do list) would make things a lot easier - maybe make them automatically like that on the easiest setting?

Chaingun guys are way easier than the other 2 zombie types now, since they have so much less of a chance to get off a single lucky shot before going down from one shotgun blast. If they didn't go down so reliably from a single SG blast they could be significantly more dangerous.

Please no pistol. Might be a neat alternative to start out with only a SHREDDER (and armour?) though.

wildweasel wrote:I just wish the bigger monsters also had that (but for enemies like the arch-vile, that might mess with balance unless you can figure out how to make it work without cranking his pain chance up).
A simple DamageMobj override would address this. A cooldown variable reduced every Tick call could be done to make sure you don't spam like a zillion of these things from one shotgun blast, while not relying on being in any particular state to reset it.

A ZScript-free (but much clumsier) alternative would be to make this happen as a function of each projectile.
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Combine_Kegan
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5 Alpha Release

Post by Combine_Kegan »

I've been eagerly waiting for the release of this mod, and I'm so glad you've finally got it out. The red flash of monsters getting damaged is satisfying as all hell. Seeing as you have a "add bright bullets option" Listed on your todo list you've already addressed one of the few complaints I've had.
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-Ghost-
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5 Alpha Release

Post by -Ghost- »

Great mod! You really did nail that Butcher feel, particular with the sounds and weapons. The red effect on hitting an enemy is kind of weird looking, though. It feels like it clashes with the monster sprites. I also agree that more weapons down the road would be nice.
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DoukDouk
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5 Alpha Release

Post by DoukDouk »

A new update has entered the ring! Check out the OP! Here's the changelog:
Spoiler:
Download here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6y8i7 ... V4NTg/view

I have the feeling next update might take a little bit longer than a few hours to push out. I'd like to finalize the sprites of the gatling gun so that it looks more like a laser gatling gun and not just a regular old gun, and might have to do some more sound-mixing with it.

Additionally, I am a huge newbie when it comes to ZScript, but I recognize that if I want universal hit recognition system, the best way would have to be through ZScript. I want to keep the majority of the mod DECORATE, simply because I'm more familiar with it when it comes to tweaking fine details, but I hope having a ZScript overhead taking care of tracer effects, hit flashing, and (maybe) alt-fire kicking will take care of the biggest hurdles of this mod. Next to developing the maps, of course.

Re: new weapons, I might add some sort of akimbo SMG weapon down the line, or perhaps another superweapon for the episode levelset, but as far as entirely new weapons for the gameplay mod, I feel like if I added anything else it'd cause serious compatibility issues.

From my experience though, the difference between spawning with a pistol and a shotgun is negligible. Most maps spawn a shotgun right next to you, if not on the ground then in the hands of a nearby shotgun zombie. I haven't seen a lot of balance issues from it, from my perspective, but depending on what everyone thinks of the class system, I might instead have some sort of rechargable infinite ammo pistol substitute, but, eh... That would encourage sniping and picking off weaker enemies from a distance, when really the whole point of the mod is to run up to someone's face and clock them in the jaw with your boot.
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by Matt »

If this is coming down to a vote, or feedback: I'm in favour of the way it is now, no classes no pistol and definitely no infinite ammo ranged plinker. (I say this as someone who would most certainly abuse such a thing in the manner you describe)

If people are running out of ammo, I think the best options are either to let players spawn with the Shredder or (my preference) beat enemies with the shotgun. That said, I've yet to actually run out of ammo and I don't know what currently happens in that situation...


EDIT: Tried 0.5c now. The classes do work, and surprisingly enough I find it a lot easier to start with the shotgun than the SMG when everything was telling me to expect the reverse!

(It's also surprisingly difficult to remember that the shotgun is weapon #2 and the SMG is weapon #4. I died several times on TNT map01 partly due to inability to remember which weaponslots were available!)
Last edited by Matt on Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jeimuzu73
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by Jeimuzu73 »

Can't help but suggest that this mod needs more blood and gore. Not BD-level gore, but something similar like in Butcher (which you said it draws influence from). :P And maybe casings.
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Mr.Enchanter
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by Mr.Enchanter »

I kinda want to make an addon that replaces the smg with a nailgun, also, do you plan on making the cacos and hell barons bleed the correct colors?
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-Ghost-
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by -Ghost- »

A nailgun or a flamethrower could be good additional weapons. We have the gatling gun, but nothing that fills more of an AOE, steady stream roll like the original plasma rifle would. Honestly just all the weapons from Butcher would probably a good set for this, since you've already got a bunch.
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by Matt »

Not a fan of the chaingunguys no longer having the gatling - no longer matches the sprite now. Not sure what to suggest in that regard though, if balance is a concern... maybe let them do the increased damage but turn slower?

Found an error:
Warning: incorrect actor name in definition of skill baby:
class Boolit is replaced by non-existent class BabyBoolit
Skill replacement will be ignored for this actor.
Would you also consider renaming the SHREDDER class to Lacerator or Slasher or something? Got a friend or two who might enjoy this mod but actually suffer from psychosis probably wouldn't be all that happy about the current name.

Deii wrote:my masochistic side wants bullets and pellets to go FASTER for some reason
I suspect that would make the mod easier in a lot of respects - it's surprising how incredibly fucking bad I am at Doom when "shoot first" is no longer a foolproof defence against lower-tier enemies!
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DoukDouk
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by DoukDouk »

A flamethrower would be awesome and fit the sun theme of the mod perfectly. :D I think that's a top contender for the extra levelset weapon. Thanks!

With the Gatling now being considered a cell weapon again, I'm modifying it more to serve as something like a much faster version of the plasma rifle, so hopefully it will fill the same niche as that weapon..
Vaecrius wrote: (It's also surprisingly difficult to remember that the shotgun is weapon #2 and the SMG is weapon #4. I died several times on TNT map01 partly due to inability to remember which weaponslots were available!)
Hah! I hope that's not too big of a problem! At the beginning of developing the mod I was really conflicted on whether or not to bind the shotgun to slot #2. However, this mod is a lot faster than regular Doom gameplay, and I found that the split-second interval of time between switching between the two shotguns when you press #3 really can mean life or death. So once you hammer in that the single shotgun takes over the pistol slot, it seems a lot more intuitive in a firefight to quickly switch to 2 instead of tapping 3 and accidentally getting a different gun, IMO.

I'm a bit perplexed as to what to do with the chaingunguys, as well. :/ I could give them the laser gatling back like you said and have them fire the new projectiles, though to balance it out they could just drop cells instead of the whole gatling. I don't think them not dropping a weapon will be too big of a concern, considering not very many wads at all rely on chaingunners giving you the only chaingun in the map, mostly they're just perched up high somewhere. The new gatling projectiles are pretty much identical to plasma balls in terms of speed and damage, which would be fun, since that would basically turn chaingunners into mini-arachnotrons instead of bullet hell fatsos.

I would gladly change the name of the class, my apologies. Totally meant no offense by that name. I'll release a quick patch within a couple of days addressing these issues.
Mr.Enchanter wrote:I kinda want to make an addon that replaces the smg with a nailgun, also, do you plan on making the cacos and hell barons bleed the correct colors?
Go for it! Also yes, down the line I'll make sure all the bigger baddies have the right color gore.
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Combine_Kegan
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by Combine_Kegan »

I do have some feedback regarding the gameplay of this mod, the kick is pretty damn cool, but given its nature of nudging the player forward and stopping them from moving for a brief moment, using the kick in most encounters is a good way to get completely destroyed because of how fast and aggressive the monsters are now, you might want to consider allowing the player full control of their movement and increasing the range of the kick a little, causing a quick flinch or a push back on kick would be useful as well. Because right now even with the healing effect of the kick it is just not worth it in most encounters and you're better off just shooting them.

The saw suffers from this problem a little as well, though it does a fine job of destroying shit at close range.
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SoundOfDarkness
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by SoundOfDarkness »

This is GZDoom only?
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5c Alpha Release

Post by Matt »

I've found the kick to be similarly useless, though I'd rather have it like this than the nagging question of how you run around on one foot.

That said, I've found it really picky as to when you should kick, since if I'm too close I just slide past my target and end up standing on one foot with the baddie having a whole second to attack from behind, making the situation far worse than if I'd just run away. (and of course if I'm too far away I just get shot in the dick)

Could the kick itself just be a little faster maybe?

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