The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby DoomKrakken » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:55 am

Oh, cool. :D

I've been playing Ed The Bat's fixed version, which just made it compatible with gameplay mods in general. But this takes it a few steps further... I gotta try it! :D
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby De-M-oN » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:13 am

- Converted .mp3 music to .ogg


oh come on. why the doom community keeps doing so much bad with audio. :(

lossy to lossy compression - no thanks. I dont want Generation Loss

Why are you keep doing this @ whole doom community?

The quality of audio suffers extremely by that. And let me guess - bad 128 kbit mp3s converted to ridiculously bad 48 kbit oggs. right?

Sorry if I sound rude or not thankful to all the work. It wasnt my intention at all. Its just frustration to see this again and again with every mod happening. And I wonder what generation loss you all do already with sounds. Its just frustration.

I love UT&T though. I even did a LP of this.

But why is everything removed? Its just if you want to use another mods along with it? The normal player should stay without supportive TNT, right?
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby DoomKrakken » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:33 pm

So, if you want to play UTNT with all of its features, play TUTNT.

If you want to play UTNT with all of its features, but with other mods... play Ed The Bat's fixed version.

And if you want to play UTNT with changes to the maps that'll make things more compatible with other mods, play TUTNT: SE.

What I like about this is that it adds another option for you to use when playing TUTNT. With Ed The Bat's fixed version, you can play with custom weapon mods (such as Guncaster or Trailblazer), but custom weapons such as the Flamethrower and Minigun are still present and can be picked up.

I beared with it, though. But now, I can actually go to those places and pick up something that I'll actually use. :D
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby DevilBlackDeath » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:28 am

I know the whole topic is a bit old now, but I was just wondering when replaying through it (I played through the non-supportive edition twice) what was up with autosaves in Episode 2 (not yet at 3 I don't remember if it's the same drill). Episode 1 as multiple autosaves at pretty good spots (although I'd say I may have pushed the second checkpoint to AFTER activating the satellite thingie, before the barons + cyber encounter). Episode 2 is very lacking in this aspect. To the point I think it may have been partly forgotten ? It's unfortunate as I like big maps to have consistent autosaves (I'm a no-save kind of guy yeah :S but if the game autosaves for me, I do use it, since it means the designer acknowledges there should be a save there).

I'm not asking the feature to be added at all, I was just wondering what's up with that ;)

Edit : My bad it was not episode 2 but episode 1 part 2 ;)
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby Glaice » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:17 pm

De-M-oN wrote:
Sorry if I sound rude or not thankful to all the work. It wasnt my intention at all. Its just frustration to see this again and again with every mod happening. And I wonder what generation loss you all do already with sounds. Its just frustration.

But why is everything removed? Its just if you want to use another mods along with it? The normal player should stay without supportive TNT, right?


I think you are nitpicking about the generation loss unless you are a hardcore audiophile..The average user is not going to notice it.

Why is everything removed/changed? It's so gameplay mods can be used, that's why since you'll get a shitload of conflicts without this sterilized version of TUTNT.
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby Solaela » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:40 am

Dunno what's going wrong but the hud when ran with pillowblaster's guncaster mod is messed up when this runs.

https://imgur.com/a/t5f6GwI

To show what's going on. And the load order.
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby Gideon020 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:07 am

Solaela wrote:Dunno what's going wrong but the hud when ran with pillowblaster's guncaster mod is messed up when this runs.

https://imgur.com/a/t5f6GwI

To show what's going on. And the load order.


First, Guncaster comes after TUNT and Voice acting pack.

Second, if it's still looking like that after you do the above, just press + or - to increase/decrease the screen size until it shows the full Guncaster HUD.
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby Solaela » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:45 am

Huh. That's all I needed. Well I'm dumb. Cheers for that.
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby Marisa Kirisame » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:11 am

In TNT03B, after finding a certain secret and coming back out of it, the music gets changed to D_DM2INT rather than TUTNTINT.

Edit: Oh, and when defeating the bosses, too.
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby DabbingSquidward » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:47 pm

I had this on the back burner for a while and never got around to posting it, but since its release in September 2017, there are issues with enemy spawns, I think some of them even because of wrong/missing TID. I noticed that many monsters don't appear, even though they have enough space to move. You can fix this by either replacing every instance of Spawn, SpawnSpot & SpawnSpotFacing with their Forced variant, or add an SXF_NOCHECKPOSITION flag where applicable. Also, the arena in the second map skips one or two entire rounds, because it fails to spawn any enemies.

EDIT: Maybe it's just me, but like Gideon020 said on the previous page, it's odd that the Pyro Cannon wasn't replaced by a BFG, because you already get an RL and PG in the first level.

EDIT #2: I'm not masochistic or anything, but I would dig it if you replaced all stealth monsters with their standard counterparts instead of removing them. Because reducing enemy count while keeping the same amount of ammo across the maps throws the balance out of whack.
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby TerminusEst13 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:57 am

Marisa Kirisame wrote:In TNT03B, after finding a certain secret and coming back out of it, the music gets changed to D_DM2INT rather than TUTNTINT.

Edit: Oh, and when defeating the bosses, too.

Oops. My mistake.

DabbingSquidward wrote:I had this on the back burner for a while and never got around to posting it, but since its release in September 2017, there are issues with enemy spawns, I think some of them even because of wrong/missing TID. I noticed that many monsters don't appear, even though they have enough space to move. You can fix this by either replacing every instance of Spawn, SpawnSpot & SpawnSpotFacing with their Forced variant, or add an SXF_NOCHECKPOSITION flag where applicable. Also, the arena in the second map skips one or two entire rounds, because it fails to spawn any enemies.

This is strange, it seemed everything spawned fine during my testing runs. I'll give this another run and check to see, thank you.

DabbingSquidward wrote:EDIT #2: I'm not masochistic or anything, but I would dig it if you replaced all stealth monsters with their standard counterparts instead of removing them. Because reducing enemy count while keeping the same amount of ammo across the maps throws the balance out of whack.

This should be exactly what happened, I removed all stealth monsters and replaced them with normal variants. Are there any that are missing?
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby DabbingSquidward » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:24 am

@TerminusEst13 I actually have a modified version I made for myself which fixes said issues but it was an amateurish search, replace and recompile of all maps' behaviour lumps. I recently found out about the doomednum and spawn number definitions in MAPINFO so expect a fix later today :)
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby De-M-oN » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:21 pm

I think you are nitpicking about the generation loss unless you are a hardcore audiophile..The average user is not going to notice it.

Since the used bitrates are usually very low as well - yes I very well notice it. Especially when it comes to music.

AOW2's music - down- and doublecompressed like hell.
LCA changed at some point the 128 kbit mp3 to 48 kbit ogg files - of course converted out of these 128 kbit mp3 (and lets better not imagine where already these 128 kbit mp3 were from. Maybe from youtube and already triple compression in it (source file uploaded to youtube -> youtube converted file -> downloaded file converted to mp3 128)

I noticed it while playing - because I wondered why the music sounds now that bad. I looked up the files of that new lca version in Slade and yeah... Then everything was clear. So I noticed it even while not knowing it. I think I succeeded the blind test then lol.....
And I really wonder about such moves. because nowadays HDDs are very big and internet connections very good. But doom community acts like we are still at ISDN connections and 256 MB harddrives :P
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Re: The Ultimate Torment & Torture: Supportive Edition

Postby DabbingSquidward » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:56 am

It took a bit longer than expected, but here it is. I gave it a whirl and played from beginning to end first to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Copy the following text and overwrite everything in tutnt-supportive.pk3/tntres.wad/MAPINFO.txt:

Code: Select allExpand view
clearepisodes
episode TNT01
{
   picname = M_EPITNT
}

map TNT01 "The Opening Abyss"
{
   levelnum = 1
   par = 0
   cluster = 1
   music = D_TNT01
   next = INTERMAP
}

cluster 1
{
}

episode TNT02
{
   name = " "
}

map TNT02 "The Armory of Pain"
{
   levelnum = 2
   par = 0
   cluster = 2
   music = D_TNT02
   next = INTERMAP
}

cluster 2
{
}

episode TNT03A1
{
   name = " "
}

map TNT03A1 "The Cursed Peak"
{
   levelnum = 3
   par = 0
   cluster = 3
   music = D_TNT03A
   next = INTERMAP
}

map TNT03A2 "The Cursed Peak"
{
   levelnum = 4
   par = 0
   cluster = 3
   music = D_TNT03A
}

cluster 3
{
   hub
}

map TNT03B "The Evil Heart"
{
   levelnum = 5
   cluster = 4
   music = TUTNTINT
   next = INTERMAP
}

cluster 4
{
}

episode TNT04A
{
   name = " "
}

map TNT04A "Into the Darkness"
{
   levelnum = 6
   par = 0
   cluster = 6
   music = D_TNT04A
   next = INTERMAP
}

cluster 6
{
}

map TNT04B "Beyond the Dark Portal"
{
   levelnum = 7
   par = 0
   cluster = 7
   music = D_TNT04C
   next = INTERMAP
   secretnext = TNT04C
}

cluster 7
{
}

map TNT04C "The Beginning and The End (DC)"
{
   levelnum = 8
   par = 0
   cluster = 8
   music = D_TNT04B
   next = INTERMAP
}

cluster 8
{
}

map TNT04CN "The Beginning and The End"
{
   levelnum = 10
   par = 0
   cluster = 10
   music = D_TNT04B
   next = INTERMAP
}

cluster 10
{
}

episode TNTLE
{
   name = " "
}

map TNTLE "The Fury of Fire"
{
   levelnum = 9
   par = 0
   cluster = 9
   music = D_TNTLE
   next = INTERMAP
}

cluster 9
{
}

map ENDMAP01 "Credits"
{
   levelnum = 88
   music = D_ENDG
   par = 0
   cluster = 88
   nointermission
}

map INTERMAP "next map"
{
   levelnum = 99
   par = 0
   music = TUTNTINT
   next = TITLEMAP
   nointermission
}

SpawnNums
{
191 = lostsoul
192 = cacodemon
193 = hellknight
194 = baronofhell
}


The only thing missing were spawnIDs for replacements of 4 enemies which sole purpose was to set different blood colors. A conversion to the newer syntax was required, I used mapinfoconv for this, this may or may not have affected TNT03B's changemusic trigger in the Sam & Max secret to play the default intermission music instead of TUTNT's.

However, some issues still remain like monsters stuck in walls and some refusing to spawn despite them having enough room to move. The latter can be fixed by replacing every instance of thing_spawn, thing_spawnfacing, SpawnSpot & SpawnSpotFacing by SpawnSpotForced & SpawnSpotFacingForced in the maps' scripts and recompiling the BEHAVIOR lump, adjusting the arguments accordingly. Do note that when using Spawnspot and its variants, the TeleportFog actor must be manually added, otherwise spawns will appear out of thin air without sound. I have no idea why it was decided to mix both functions together in the first place.

Hope this can be of use and will spare everybody the hassle of doing the edits by themselves.

EDIT: Picking up the blue keycard in TNT03A1 still spawns two stealth archviles instead of normal ones.
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