[3.4!] FINAL DOOMER +

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DoomRater
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by DoomRater »

TNT Uzis are meant to be a lockdown weapon from the rate they spew hitscans and their low DPS. If the pistol is too good at that, there's no reason to switch to the uzis. So a damage reduction on second thought might not be the right move- they can be damaging but I think it should also be risky, like the enemies shrug off rounds from it more easily.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by Yholl »

DoomRater wrote:TNT Uzis are meant to be a lockdown weapon from the rate they spew hitscans and their low DPS. If the pistol is too good at that, there's no reason to switch to the uzis. So a damage reduction on second thought might not be the right move- they can be damaging but I think it should also be risky, like the enemies shrug off rounds from it more easily.
I'm not sure if I'm calculating this correctly, but the Uzis seem to have DPS faaaar beyond the pistol, even before I dropped the damage. Which makes sense, considering the absolute torrent they unleash. The only thing I use the pistol for is picking off weak enemies at long range, or when I'm low on ammo.
Also half the Uzi's shots don't flinch, so while it is very very good at stunlocking things, it's not as horrifyingly good at it as it might seem.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by MasterOfPuppets86 »

DoomRater wrote:TNT Uzis are meant to be a lockdown weapon from the rate they spew hitscans and their low DPS. If the pistol is too good at that, there's no reason to switch to the uzis. So a damage reduction on second thought might not be the right move- they can be damaging but I think it should also be risky, like the enemies shrug off rounds from it more easily.
Are you sure we're playing the same mod? The TNT pistol is good, but the UZIs beat them at basically everything.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by DoomKrakken »

MasterOfPuppets86 wrote:
DoomRater wrote:TNT Uzis are meant to be a lockdown weapon from the rate they spew hitscans and their low DPS. If the pistol is too good at that, there's no reason to switch to the uzis. So a damage reduction on second thought might not be the right move- they can be damaging but I think it should also be risky, like the enemies shrug off rounds from it more easily.
Are you sure we're playing the same mod? The TNT pistol is good, but the UZIs beat them at basically everything.
The story of every Doom game ever. Once you pick up Chaingun, you might as well throw away the pistol...

(Though the D4 Pistol is quite useful... :D)
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by Yholl »

DoomKrakken wrote:The story of every Doom game ever. Once you pick up Chaingun, you might as well throw away the pistol...

(Though the D4 Pistol is quite useful... :D)
Thankfully, that is not the case with Final Doomer.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by DoomRater »

Infinite ammo assures the pistol will always have a backup role. But okay, apparently no one conserves ammo like I do.

Edit:

TNT pistols can deal damage every 6 tics. They deal 12, 15, or 18 damage currently each time. That is an average dps of 87.5 (vanilla chaingun exclam)
TNT Uzis deal 3d3 * 2 damage every 2 tics, or average 12 damage. That is an average dps of 210. Also, they can painstun once every 2 tics, roughly double that of vanilla chaingun (this part seems fine, honestly)

Yeah that TNT pistol seems really safe to use for most encounters, even minibosses.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by zrrion the insect »

That is correct, you are the only one.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by Deii »

Yeah, why bother conserving ammo if you have a backup that deals solid damage and has infinite ammo? That's literally the reason for the pistols to have infinite reloads in the first place if you ask me. Ran out of ammo? You're not dicked just yet.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by DoomRater »

Because it's not risky to just use the infinte ammo weapon???? I have to go to a slaughtermap before I'm forced to use something else.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by Deii »

Dude, it's Doom. There's no risk unless you're pistol starting every single map and you're playing a particularly tough WAD on anything short of UV. Again, just my view on this matter, no offense intended and all that good stuff - but this is starting to get a bit silly and I'm getting maser beam flashbacks already...
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by DoomRater »

Doom refused to give you a ranged weapon without an ammo limit and I'm beginning to see why. There WILL be people who will use that weapon and only that weapon. This must also be why Vazkii removed "infinite passive flowers" as sufficiently nobody would try other mana generation.

I overwhelmingly like Plutonia's revolver and it feels like a hand cannon. Oddly enough the numbers DON'T agree with me: 20, 25, or 30 damage every 10 tics for an average dps of 87.5 (vanilla chaingun exclam!) putting its overall damage on the same level, but with lower sustained fire (1.7 seconds vs 2.5) and less painchance.

Doom2guy's pistol? I'm expecting similar numbers before I even do the math: 12-16 damage every 11 tics for an average dps of... 44.5 dps. A small damage boost over vanilla's pistol.

No offense is meant or taken. It's just the high running emotions of slapping two polarizing viewpoints on a starting weapon. These pistols feel very powerful and I'm sure that was the intent.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by Slax »

Conserving ammo with the pistol is super fun... until you switch to the shotgun and realize it barely deals enough damage to be worthwhile.
That's one of the few problems I've found with TNT guy. Pistol > Scattergun.

Maybe give the Scattergun a wee bit of knockback for balance?
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by DoomRater »

Edit: Fuck I peeked at burst shotgun argued it's scattergun, one sec while I clean up my post Wait these are the same gun?

Peeking at the scattergun it's practically painless to get hit by. 3d3 * 12 (only two of those cause painchance) every 8 tics (not counting the cocking stall) for an average firing dps of 525 DOES NOT SEEM WORSE THAN THE PISTOL. You're probably more used to seeing things react "shotgun, nooo don't shoot me!" but in this case monsters are going "is that birdshot aghahaha hit me again oh wait I'm dead." I can confirm it mows down imps just fine, they just don't feel anything.

Edit 2: Yeah, it's the tactical that really hurts. Average damage per shot is 75 and it's able to be fired again in just over a second, meaning it indeed does have a lower DPS than the stock pistol. (5d3 * 6 + 15 center shot very suspicious)
Last edited by DoomRater on Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Slax
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by Slax »

So that's it. Mmmm.
OH WELL.
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Re: [AA/BTSX PREVIEWS!] FINAL DOOMER

Post by MasoGuy »

Something to consider is that the pistols are the only weapons with a significant reload in this gameplay mod (shotguns also carry a reload, sort of, but they pack a much bigger punch and the reload is a lot faster). So while the pistols may have infinite ammo they still get a disadvantage against other guns in this aspect, not to mention they tend to be weaker than the rest of the weapons in a given kit. The pistols being strong gives them some legitimacy as a fall back weapon.

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