MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Faceman2000 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:02 am

I know of existing sprites and decorate for the Sabaoth and Kronos, so both of them would be relatively simple to implement I believe. I like the idea of Hitler showing up in Grosse - or even Grosse himself, actually - though then you run the chance of it playing too close to the original Wolfenstein levels.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Gez » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:52 am

I'd rather see the Harbinger (Wolf RPG) or the Angel of Death (Spear of Destiny) in MAP31; but sprites are obviously an issue. There's the "Super Demon" that could work as a Harbinger, but it lacks a convincing attack animation since it's built from the Cyberdemon that just points its rocket-launcher arm at you, that makes it a base that is far too stiff for any attack animation with actual movement. And I'm not sure the Angel of Death ever got rotations.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Kinsie » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:07 am

Gez wrote:but it lacks a convincing attack animation since it's built from the Cyberdemon that just points its rocket-launcher arm at you, that makes it a base that is far too stiff for any attack animation with actual movement.
Looking at the Wolfenstein RPG sprite rip, the Harbinger's attacks consisted of a clawing/fireball attack that was basically traced from the Baron of Hell (so using that AI resize mod as a base would probably work well enough) and a cruddy-looking headbutt charge thing.

Image

As for the issue of sprites, my current plan is to build a few prototypes using crappy placeholder artwork first. This will help me get some fun gameplay down to the point where I can potentially convince artists to let me borrow them for a little bit, safe in the knowledge that I won't be wasting their time. Or it'll give me some ideas on how to handle the art myself. Both have happened on previous MetaDoom releases. So feel free to suggest monsters that don't have obvious spritesets available! They might just look like recoloured Zombiemen for a while.

EDIT BECAUSE DOUBLE-POSTING SUCKS:
snarkel wrote:Resurrection of Evil's Maledict would also be a pretty nice pick!
The Maledict's size and general behavior is such that it'd really need a unique map to work properly, like that one boss in Hexen.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 am

I think sprites aside, another issue is the gameplay role of the new bosses. (specially because Doom 3 didn't offer much in terms of enemy gameplay, even with the creative liberties this mod has at times)
Not just what makes them stand out but also not too "out of boundries" as well.
It's why i'm waiting for Eternal to come out and see how its bosses might play.
For what we know, we may not only face an icon of sin again, but one who is an actual boss and not a wall.

That and considering if players would like to see every enemy the mod has to offer in a playthrough in a random mapset, specially with the codex entries.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Help Wanted! p108)

Postby Grizzly » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:07 pm

Blue Shadow wrote:
Grizzly wrote:(Becuase it hasn't been spotlighted yet, duh)

It has, actually.


I meant to say "hadn't" there :oops:

Still loving the mod, I'm currently playing through "No End In Sight" with it.
Two things I would love to see are:
1) Health given for telefrag attacks - hey, it's a melee attack really.
2) Some introduction of the doom 2 bestiary in Doom 1 maps, just like we can get the SSG
2.5) Some sort of pickup for going after zombies with a chainsaw? I like how the chainsaw is now, since the stunlock is so powerful, but I like the "pickups for melee" system so much that it's a shame I don't get it with the chainsaw!

Random things I like:
I like how changing your gender in GZDoom changes your appearance and voice. I especially like the non-binary choice!
I absolutely adore the melee system!
I like how liquid spills from the explosive barrels if you don't hit them!
I like how hitscan enemies are significantly reduced in number if not removed entirely!
I love the dog collar!
I love the UI!
I love the Plasma Rifle's alt-fire!
A beeping noise to the Revenant's homing missiles is pure genius!
Other things I've forgotten to mention!

So yes, please keep up the good work! I've been trying many gameplay mods on GZDoom but this is the one I keep coming back to. Any recommended mapsets...?
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Sallyspartan » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:13 am

I think from most interesting/interested to least interested (Not including the two you already mentioned in the update) for bosses are

Guardian of Hell
Pinkinator
Sabaoth
Kronos
2016 Cyberdemon
The Hell Hunters (Helltime, Invulnerability, then Berserk)
D3 Cyberdemon (Still destructible with standard weapons, but slower, more health, more actively chasing, but insta-soul cube kill)
VIOS

Vagary I see more as an Arachnotron replacement than a boss if she was implemented

And any bosses from Eternal are a wait-n-see
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:38 am

The Cyberdemon of this mod already has the sounds from the D3 version, more health (if i recall) and you can insta soul cube kill him under the effects of Quad Damage.

I like how changing your gender in GZDoom changes your appearance and voice. I especially like the non-binary choice!


It gets better when you realize those are actual existing characters in the franchise (Kira Morgan and that guy from the VFR game) since the mod seems to be about expanding Doom with Doom.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby sirleviatan » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:55 pm

thanks for the mod, it's amazing, I use a pack of Metadoom:
viewtopic.php?t=53010
Nameless Lite RPG Mod 1.6.0
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=56272
and Colourful Hell 0.97ccc
viewtopic.php?t=47980
and it's beautiful cute, thank you very, very much!
Last edited by sirleviatan on Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 15 times in total.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Kinsie » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:44 pm

sirleviatan wrote:thanks for the mod, it's amazing, I use a pack of Metadoom:
viewtopic.php?t=53010
Nameless Lite RPG Mod 1.6.0
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=56272
and Colourful Hell 0.97ccc
viewtopic.php?t=47980
and it's a bestiality, thank you very, very much!
i don't think that's the word you meant to use

at least, i hope it isn't
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby SiFi270 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:24 am

Late Plutonia may also be a good place for a Mother Demon battle, since she's a freaky insect thing and at that point in the game you're inside what the story calls "the Devil-Hive". She could either replace the Mastermind in map27 or the Cyberdemon in map30.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby DYD » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:20 am

My suggestions for the new boss system are :
Stronger Barons for E1M8
If it is possible completely deleting the Icon bosses in Final Doom and replacing them with different bosses
E2M8 Cyberdemon being a little more unique (Baalgar sprites and 2016-style dashes?)
E3M8 Mastermind using a BFG and being much more resilient, with melee attacks required to stun and damage it
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:13 pm

The Barons already seem strong enough unless you mean the new fire counterparts.
E2M8 is technically the first time you ever meet Cybie and he already has dashes.
There's the Sabaoth from D3, who has the BFG and i think you can even shoot his BFG projectiles in D3.

I think the issue with too many bosses is if the player wants to see everything the mod has to offer in a single playthrough, which i already said many times.
But it's another reason why i like the Codex.

Anyway, looking at some Eternal footage.
* Dread Knight can shock the floor with some AoE attack for a while and has some sort of slice projectile thing.
* Pain Elemental can throw 3 souls at the player at once.
* Doom Hunter can shoot a barrage of homing rockets, shoot straight rockets, use a melee attack and apparently shield himself with a blue glowing layer on him?

7/30/19 edit: that reminds me, if a heaven related enemy gets in the mod, you could make him resist holy water.

8/8/18 edit: i downloaded the github version just to test the mother demon and hell guard but they don't show up at all. i tried summoning from the console (metamotherdemon, metahellguard) and nothing happened.

NEVERMIND THAT, i just accidently used the wrong version instead.
I'm still testing them and they seem fine so far, althought a bit too fast depending on how the players are expected to encounter these.

I find it interesting that the SMM got two replacements before the Cyberdemon but i assume it's because of that part in map 28 where you meet two Spiderdemons.
Althought when i IDCLEV to map 28, i still got two Spiderdemons so i decided to summon two Hell Guards just because.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Miru » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:33 am

Have been playing quite a bit recently and there’s a few things I’ve noticed;

* I have ideas for the Super Shotgun’s secondary fire; perhaps the piercing uranium shot?
* I really think Cherubs, which would fly and rapidly attack, would work here.
* Liking the use of the Mother Demon!
* The Hellhound Weapon might need a buff, or at least differentiation between the three breeds. Didn’t find that much use for it.
* Pinkynator would fit in MAP06 of Doom II
* Just got thinking that Hellshot would indeed be a good pick as another, more basic, soul-powered weapon. Primary fire is an energy blast that flies at a moderate pace and does moderate damage. Secondary fire would work like Phoenix Rod from Heretic, except with flame damage.
Last edited by Miru on Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:55 pm

I was thinking that if the Doomhunter ever gets added, his placeholder sprites could either be the Demonsteele Cyberdemon replacement or a Necron Destroyer from Warhammer. (mostly because he looks like DH was based on him)

I also noticed that the DH's homing rockets land on the ground which reminds me of the 2016 Cyberdemon being able to shoot rockets upwards that would then land on the floor, all over the place, while their spots would have been telegraphed.
So one of the DoomHunter's attacks could be him shooting rockets up and then some red/orange circle spawns on the player's current location to indicate the upcoming rockets above him, so he must move away from that spot.
This could also make him a bit more distinct from the Mother Demon's more straight foward homing rockets.

I also thought of the Sabaoth from Doom 3 where he could have tank like movement and he'd rarely show up because 1: a boss giving a BFG might be a bit too much and 2: he's a singular character in the Doom canon but it's not like MetaDoom always follows the story, which was a less important point in the series.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Miru » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:07 pm

If we do get Angel of Death/Harbinger/Devil Incarnate, maybe give them the Spear of Destiny as a special item drop? Having that would probably make MAP32 of Doom 2 more rewarding. I’ve been looking over the various final maps of the games, and I think TNT’s MAP30 would make a nice home for the Maledict, as it seems to have a good structure for him to lurk and perform his attacks, with ground for the fire trail/Forgotten One barrage and an upper level for the fireball blasts. MAP06 of Doom II would be good for Pinkinator to replace the SM, as it would have a similar attack scheme with some differences that make it more adjusted to its area (spawning Pinkies and a close-range puke attack, while not being able to move).
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