Finally getting into Doom 3

[Dancso]

Doom 3 BFG Edition, a re-release of Doom 3 featuring enhanced graphics

The BFG edition is actually a sorry console port with inferior graphics and very limited graphical options. You get x32 motion blur though, WOO HOO [/sarcasm]

[The Zombie Killer]

Doom 3 BFG Edition, a re-release of Doom 3 featuring enhanced graphics

The BFG edition is actually a sorry console port with inferior graphics and very limited graphical options. You get x32 motion blur though, WOO HOO [/sarcasm]

Engine-wise, it's not that bad (stuff like RBDoom3-BFG make it even better), it's like a mix between idTech 4 and 5 (idTech 4.5)
But yeah BFG Edition itself certainly has some issues

[Viscra Maelstrom]

i only got it myself because i wanted to legitimately own NERVE.wad, which now has custom MAPINFO and makes it a selectable episode when running Doom 2. i haven't even bothered with the extra Doom 3 episode, and have no idea if it's good at all.

the biggest issue in my opinion, though, is the removal of the Wolfenstein secret level nazi actors. everything else is cosmetic changes that feels a bit ugh that they tinkered with, but not having THAT in it just causes issues with some PWADs.

[Dancso]

The D3 expansion is more of the same, except you get a gravity gun gimmick which stops being a thing past early game (unless you use it as a weapn to reflect projectiles), and a bunch of enemies that are even more bullet-spongy than the others, especially if you want to use the crappy shotgun at all. Double shotty is the same idiotic pellet spread, utterly useless and slow.

---

The end boss fight is against an opponent who is 99% of the time a mid-to-long distance from you and moves fast, the absolute counter of the game's short-range / slow projectile weapons.

The one redeeming factor of the arsenal is the new artifact which gives temporary powerups that you unlock as the game progresses: slow time, berserk & invulnerability. To recharge it you must find bodies hand placed by the level designer.
You'll be constantly wishing you had more charges because everything is frustrating to deal with when you're not under the effects. I absolutely hated having to rely on it constantly.
Then again, I played on veteran difficulty level (What a mistake that was) at 170% normal damage taken and increased monster count.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

oh no, i wasn't talking about that expansion pack, but the extra episode exclusive to the BFG Edition. i agree that the Artifact is a pretty terrible gimmick, because you can use it to ace terribly overpowered enemies like the Bruiser, and if not, well, you're going to get decked against the floor pretty fast. at least the Soul Cube had some more thoughtful strategic usefulness, i think.

[shotfan]

This game did so much things wrong...

The arsenal feels so weak it is very underwhelming. Slow (AGAIN!!!) and weak pistol; a shotgun with totally absurd spread (absolute disgrace to the original, which for one had a reasonable spread - in a damn shooter game, no less!); grenades that bounce like tennis balls (if they could be flat rolled, like bowling balls, THEN they could be useful); SUPER SLOW CHAINGUN WITH 60 ROUNDS CAPACITY ( ); quiet rocket launcher (what. the. hell); plasmagun with turtle-slow projectiles (why they could not be as fast as Hyperblaster's bolts?). The only weapons that were done mostly right were the Assault Rifle (but still with weak SFX), chainsaw and Soulcube (BFG9000 was just average, but at least had a new charging mechanic).

Double shotty is the same idiotic pellet spread, utterly useless and slow.

Yeah, it got terrible spread, but at least it was still the beast it was in the Doom 2, murdering everything lesser than heavyweight demon class.

Enemy roster was not so bad, but still had problems. Majority of enemies are Imps, which are quite capable by themselves (wall/ceiling walk and lunges were a good addition!), but they got pretty stale fast. Pinkies were sad to watch, as they had no space almost anywhere to maneuver (and Arachnotrons got cut probably for the same reason). New Lost Souls looked bad and made no impression on me... no wait, their screech was annoying rather than terrifying. Arch-Viles were snail-paced for no good reason. My dear Cacodemons looked just stupid. And Pain Elementals got cut.
The new demons were also pretty flawed: Maggots do nothing well (weak and without ranged attack); Cherubs that do nothing special aside from being weaker Maggots; Ticks and Trites never ambush you properly; and Wraiths do a lame teleport that is slow and (always?) destined IN FRONT OF YOU (because a demon like that, melee-only, would never want to get BEHIND you... what a waste!). And of course there is the Cyberdemon that is also AS SLOW AS PANZER VI TANK (noticed a pattern here?), and only killable with Soulcube. Sigh... But at least Mancubi and especially Hell Knights were awesome (good thing that those bald badasses got a job in Doom 4!).

Also included: levels with forgettable layout design (only after you return from Hell it gets a bit better... 2/3 into the game!). Tension building relying mostly on Imp-in-a-closet jump scares, diluted by the glut of ammo supply. Almost no really engaging fights and very limited monster infighting.

I guess that the story was an improvement... but really? Playing Doom for the plot (<insert mandatory impse joke here>)? Damn, this game really shows there was no more Romero behind Doom. Having said this, I kind of do not understand why you would want to play this game rather than any of the three other Doom titles (or even PSX Doom or Doom 64), PooshhMao, but that is your choice.
(what the Hell is wrong with me and my rants?)

Still though, more enjoyable than Half-Life 2. Now THAT was a bland piece of incoherent, half-baked gameplay elements (forced physics puzzles, castrated arsenal compared to the original, low enemy variety, mediocre aesthetics, boring vehicle levels, forgettable music, and way too slow-paced. Just an unworthy successor of the Half-Life). But well, Valve is already s****** on it by postponing Episode 3 and HL3 till eternity. Good for them.

---

By the way, since you were talking about RoE - are Vulgars worth anything as enemy? I have not played the expansion, but I got the impression they could make good addition (along with un-stupidfied Wraiths) to original monster variety as sort of elite Imps. What do you think about them?

(regarding the Artifact - I just thought of an idea to improve it/make a better weapon based off it: how about a demonic device that lets you activate a single Sphere-related power on will? Instead of Super Speed+Berserk+Invulnerability, you can use a Blursphere, or Soulsphere, or Berserk, or Invulnerability, or maybe even a Quad Damage or Conflictsphere (this one would be a Sphere that forces all demons in affected area to infight each other), with varying mana cost (mana restored from killing enemies)? This one would require more tactical thought put into it to decide when to use what, rather than just "charge-and-save for the next tough fight" super-sophisticated kind of thinking (and probably copies the BFG's utility anyway))

[Dancso]

I hate vulgars the most out of all the Doom 3 monsters. They're even harder to kill than imps, especially with a shotgun, you really do not want to get into point blank range. RoE used them religiously all throughought and i got absolutely sick of them. Remember how the original campaign overused imps? They're probably just as common in RoE.
Also i believe the BFG edition messed with some of the weapons. I swear the chaingun and plasmagun were much faster and held more ammo than they do in the BFG edition. Probably something that was introduced for consoles due to the inferior controls.

I personally love HL2.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

Doom 4 has quite a lot of Imps too, but thankfully the whole bestiary so far is a bit more varied, and even the slow-ass mancubi can jump at you without warning. in Doom 3, it's pretty much just move around slightly and shoot the thing until it dies, because their attack patterns are honestly non-threatening as a whole

[Ghastly]

oh no, i wasn't talking about that expansion pack, but the extra episode exclusive to the BFG Edition. i agree that the Artifact is a pretty terrible gimmick, because you can use it to ace terribly overpowered enemies like the Bruiser, and if not, well, you're going to get decked against the floor pretty fast. at least the Soul Cube had some more thoughtful strategic usefulness, i think.

They were both basically the same thing. Incredibly overpowered powerups that you have complete control over when to use, but the whole game (minus some bosses) have to be balanced around you not having it because you might not have enough fuel for it.

That idea of "the player might not have it" was the whole reason why Dead Space was so easy. Everything has to be balanced around you being able to do everything with the un-upgraded Plasma Cutter because the developers can't be sure you have any other weapon or upgrade.

and only killable with Soulcube

I don't think that's as big a problem as some people think. I think the major problem is the fight only throws imps and maggots at you, after it makes sure you're full on just about every ammo type. If the arena spawned other, bigger monsters on higher difficulty settings in addition to those, I think it would've been a much more fun fight.

Also i believe the BFG edition messed with some of the weapons. I swear the chaingun and plasmagun were much faster and held more ammo than they do in the BFG edition. Probably something that was introduced for consoles due to the inferior controls.

Only thing BFG did to the weapons, I believe, is increased the amount of ammo every pickup gives you.

[Clownman]

Classic Doom 3 is kinda recommended too IMO. Shame there isn't a E2 or 3 remake to go along with it.

I also remember seeing a mod ages ago that changes the ugly Cacodemon redesign back to it's classic counterpart as a custom model. Wish I could find it again.

[shotfan]

I hate vulgars the most out of all the Doom 3 monsters. They're even harder to kill than imps, especially with a shotgun, you really do not want to get into point blank range. RoE used them religiously all throughought and i got absolutely sick of them. Remember how the original campaign overused imps? They're probably just as common in RoE.

Overabundance of Vulgars is the problem with the developers that did not know when to stop, rather than the monster himself. Any monster in such numbers will get boring quickly.

Doom 4 has quite a lot of Imps too, but thankfully the whole bestiary so far is a bit more varied, and even the slow-ass mancubi can jump at you without warning. in Doom 3, it's pretty much just move around slightly and shoot the thing until it dies, because their attack patterns are honestly non-threatening as a whole

I am positively surprised at the Doom 4's bestiary as well. Still no Pain Elementals or Arachnotrons (why?! PEs dispensing new kamikaze Lost Souls could make for really tense fights, and there is A LOT more room for spiderbrains to roam around), but those that got in really seem competent in general, and finally got new attacks! Even more, there is actually a successful new demon, the Prowler (and Harvester is coming too)! It is comforting to see that id finally got its s*** back together.

and only killable with Soulcube

I don't think that's as big a problem as some people think. I think the major problem is the fight only throws imps and maggots at you, after it makes sure you're full on just about every ammo type. If the arena spawned other, bigger monsters on higher difficulty settings in addition to those, I think it would've been a much more fun fight.

Oh yeah, just another stupid thing I forgot. Provide a full ammo restock against a pair of an Imp and Maggot that spawn every ten second. They could not decide if whether you would need to kill the Cyberdemon conventionally, or with the Soulcube or what? If the battle spawned Cybers' minions faster and in tiers (before first Soulcube use you get only Imps and Maggots, then Pinkies and Revenants, then Mancubi and Cacodemons, and finally Arch-Viles and Hell Knights), then it would be a welcome alternative to "shoot him until he dies" duel. But no, we got this anticlimax. It could be be only worse if only minions were fat zombies.

I also remember seeing a mod ages ago that changes the ugly Cacodemon redesign back to it's classic counterpart as a custom model. Wish I could find it again.

What a shame that I have not found it back when I bothered to search for Doom 3 mods. By the way, I remember there is Pain Elemental for Doom 3 available somewhere.

[Ixnatifual]

The BFG edition really messed up the ammo balance. It was spot on in the original release. You're constantly overflowing with ammo in the BFG edition. Why they would break that on purpose is beyond me.

[Ethril]

How to enjoy Doom 3:
Pretend it's not Doom; you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you go in expecting classic Doom. Treat it like it's just a Doom-flavored Half-Life. Because, essentially, that's what it is.
(The Hell maps were actually fun, IMO. Should've had more of the game like that... or at least have more of the game not consist of imps coming at you 1-2 at a time through narrow corridors.)

and yeah the BFG edition gives you ludicrous amounts of ammo, although even classic doom typically gives you way more than enough. at least, i don't think i've ever ended a map without full shells (or close to it), even when only using shotguns. you're only ever really going to have ammo issues in, like, E3M1.

[Hellser]

I personally use the "Redux" mod. It more or less enhances the graphics for Doom 3. I quite like it. It also brightens the game up a wee bit so I don't need to use the flashlight all the damn time.

[PooshhMao]

Progress report.

I've spent the last few weeks taking Doom 3 mods apart, and I have started a project of my own.
I've already fixed pretty much all of the issues I have with the game.

I've overhauled all the guns. The vanilla D3 shotgun is probably the worst FPS shotgun I've ever used; it's now among the best. It fires twice the amount of pellets, in a much narrower cone. It doesn't gib enemies anymore, so now it sends enemies FLYING.

I've added laser sights. Iron sights. Grenade hotkey. New animations. I've sped up others.

Created a couple of player classes. Gave them helmets. Implemented bots, both in human and sentry form. I'm writing custom AI. You now run twice as fast, and don't make that annoying tippity-tappity footstep sound anymore.

The grenades are now fucking LETHAL. I've overhauled the physics. They don't bounce around anymore, and I can throw them farther and much more precisely.

I've doubled the machinegun fire rate, increased magazine size, and slightly upgraded damage. Headshots are now much more lethal. Armor protects better, and lasts longer.

I've added improved particles and smoke effects. Much better gun sounds.

Oh yeah, I'm also rather impressed with how well the physics engine work. It's just that the campaign offers little room to play around with it. I'm implementing a form of limited telekinesis.

I've also got DarkRadiant installed, and I'm building a map that focuses on being fun to play first, and looks good later.

Holy shit, this game is totally coming to life. I'm finally starting to enjoy it.