Spoiler:Oh, and alt-fires and reloading would be SUPER nice to have. I wouldn't really call it "bloat" if it's a desired feature.
It's because monsters do 50% more damage on that skill level. To be honest DBThanatos should include that as a description in-game. Play LT, since it's closer to UV.Valherran wrote:More things and stuff.
If the railgunners immediately shot? Yeah it'd be cheap as fuck, but they don't, and if you keep moving they can't really hit you all that well (or often.) Personally I feel like the hit-scanners should be Fast-moving Tracer-projectiles but that's just me.Cryomundus wrote:Even more things and stuff.
That would explain alot...iSpook wrote:It's because monsters do 50% more damage on that skill level. To be honest DBThanatos should include that as a description in-game. Play LT, since it's closer to UV.Valherran wrote:More things and stuff.
Yeah, though several people are interested or missing it.wildweasel wrote:Yeah, I'm inclined to say you don't need to worry about it; it's a personal taste thing with me, and you don't need to cater to my little whims if you don't want to.
Well, I could look into a (precisely A_Fire(archvile)) system to let the player know.PooshhMao wrote:It's still a problem if you're in a large open area. Imagine if viles didn't telegraph their attack, it would drive you nuts. That's the problem I'm having here. How about warning the player that they're being targeted by a railgun wielder?
Indeed. Im beginning to wonder if my playstyle is biasing my opinion on what's fair and what isnt in the game.iSpook wrote:1.) They can really only hit you in the open if you're standing still. The RG-toting revguards is a bit more annoying to notice at a range than the Glads, but if you're not standing still a lot then you shouldn't have a problem.
Well, the aim period is plenty longer than the regular doom shotgunguys. In this mod is 28tics between aim and fire, and in doom is 10 tics. The damage however, was indeed increased. Well, techincally the pellets. The regular shotguy has 3 pellets while these guys have 5. So i suppose it's indeed a 66% damage increase. I will change that a bit. Maybe a 33% is enough. One thing to consider on the whole damage balance calculation is the fact that in doom, armors behave differently depeding on if they're blue or green and the fact that they cant be added on top. In this mod you get a lot of extra amor from the shards, and all armors can be added on top of each other, and all armor absorbs 66% of the damage, and health bonuses give also +3 instead of +1 health. That's why in general I increased the damage a bit when balancing everything. Perhaps I went overboard with these guys?iSpook wrote:2.) The only enemies I think need to be nerfed a bit are the Shotgun-arm guys (Maybe a tiny damage nerf and maybe make their period between aim and fire a bit longer, I dunno.) and the Machinegun-summoner-dogbots (Holy fuck those things hurt.)
Then you're enjoying it. That's always good!iSpook wrote:Not gonna lie, This mod is making me it's bitch. I don't like to save scum during my recordings but holy fuck it feels like it's necessary... which feels right to me for some odd reason.
Actually, I think you are confusing two different things here: Rate of fire and the sound in the original game.Zhs2 wrote: Yes. I know the Quake 4 vanilla machinegun is much faster firing than this, which sort of lends its characteristic flavor in the sound of spitting bullets. Slowing it down just strikes this huge, nasty discord with me; is a mod called "Lightning Fast" meant to have a machinegun with this poot-poot-poot rate of fire? (Also noticed that scoped firing is even slower, but that helps the feel of control, so I have less issues there.)
Oh man. The thing is that I ripped those sprites and added the doomguy hands for AEoDPooshhMao wrote:If you'll allow just one more tiny nitpick - I think the guns clash a bit with Doomguy's rapist latex gloves.
Black gloves just look plain better.
And that right there is the problem. Look at the description found in the 1st post and the file contained in the package:Valherran wrote:2nd to last setting (because I don't deal with cheesy respawning)...
If you want a more fair game, use skill 3. That's basically UV. The error is to think that every mod has the same skill level in the same menu position as the original doom. That's why I took the time to explain what each skill does.1st post wrote:
- Skill 0 "Private: It doesnt even hurt" : This is the easiest of them all. Monsters deal half damage. It spawns monsters that spawn in "very easy" and "easy" (spawnfilter = easy)
- Skill 1 "Corporal: Too many, too weak" : This one is like "Private" except that spawns monsters that appear usually on "hard / Nightmare" (spawnfilter = hard). This and the above skills are recommended if playing the mod in a cellphone (through DoomTouch), since it only alters the damage received (controlling the thing in the phone can be tricky). Ammo and everything else is normal. Other than that, these two skills are waaay too easy for PC playing.
- Skill 2 "Sergeant: This feels fair" : This is basically "hurt me plenty", the default medium skill in vanilla doom.
- Skill 3 "Lieutenant: Too many, fair" : This is the equivalent to vanilla's "Ultra violence". Spawnfilter = hard.
- Skill 4 "Colonel: Sometimes I miss my arm" : Harder than UV. Monsters are as aggressive as they get, and you take 50% more damage from everything.
- Skill 5 "General: Drowning in my own blood" : Hardest skill. Monsters are also as aggressive as they get, but deal less damage than skill 4, however, monsters respawn, limited to 4 times max per monsters. Ammo is doubled.
Never heard of those maps. I shall take a lookblackfish wrote:Very interesting in BTSX and Ribbicks maps.
It does feel weird that the Hyperblaster's the shotgun pickup.
Ahh! Excellent. Thanks for reporting it though. It was worth to check if indeed I had screwed the code somewherelizardcommando wrote:EDIT: Ok, it seems to work fine in the latest GITHUB version of GZDoom and the 2.8.0 version of ZDoom. I guess it was that specific version of GZDoom that seemed to have messed things up for some weird reason.
Completely agreed. However, I tried to fix that in several ways. The amount of damage they deal is quite low and their shots spread quite bad. But even then I keep finding them quite annoying. One thing I did in purpose though, was to have them have less health than the upgraded RG. So, one shot, and they're a goner. So far, that seems to have worked wonders to deal with them, but thats only if you have said upgrade. Im open to suggestions for what to do with that mofo.Cryomundus wrote:Honestly, health feels really scarce, and railgunners are cheap-asses. Also, why are one of the cacodemon replacements hitscanners? Feels incredibly cheap, really.
Well, i think is more a thing about how they behave. I have debated for long if I should just revert the chasing to the original doom style. I added a custom "chasing" style based on moving the actor in straight lines, but more often than not they end up getting stuck and not reacting to anything.Cryomundus wrote:Oh, and those orb-bots can be easily killed if you don't alert them and just use the blaster. Since they don't flinch, they never react to your blaster.
That's interesting. I just went with the original game´s weapon distribution.Cryomundus wrote:One last thing, and this is just a suggestion (or for anyone that wants to use this)
Spoiler:
The bloat i was referring to was not "game bloat" but code bloat. The code for each weapon is quite big since it has the deathmatch versions built in.Cryomundus wrote:Oh, and alt-fires and reloading would be SUPER nice to have. I wouldn't really call it "bloat" if it's a desired feature.
More than anything tho, ALTFIRES. PLEASE.
That´s an interesting look at the behaviour. I shall take a look into the delay of the monster´s attacks. Thats one thing I didnt consider per se. However, Im not finding it as troublesome as you are. Maybe Im too used already to play it like that since I´ve been playing it for the past 6 monthsMachalite wrote:I think it has less to do with damage dealt, and everything to do with enemy behavior. Every standard enemy in Doom has a brief pause in its animation before it attacks; the Cyberdemon is the only exception, but his is still a projectile with a strict attack pattern. That's the whole reason Doom's gameplay works: everything is telegraphed, allowing you to theoretically avoid all damage. Any mistake is on you, within reason, and the health and armor pickups exist as your margin for error. When you introduce enemies that attack instantly, especially with hitscan attacks, you virtually guarantee that the player will take damage. Even if said enemies dealt minimal damage, you still put the player at risk of ending up in unwinnable situations that only worsens the higher up in enemy tiers these trends go.
Example: I don't think the cacodemon replacement is as big a problem as the aforementioned revenant and archvile replacements (and not just the railgun ones), because they don't give you a remote chance in any environment. Being in an enclosed space with with the spider mastermind and cyberdemon replacements literally guarantees that you'll die, but that's a slightly different problem. I can imagine how hard it is to balance a mod that replaces everything in Doom, but there are things that can be done to ensure it's fair in as many situations as possible.
Brightmaps. Holy hell. Why did I never think of that. I'll have a look into how to even do them, and sure thing. I shall add them. If you have any experience with that and want to lend my a hand, that'd be greatMachalite wrote:Really enjoying this, though. Serious Sam-style weapon switching was a good call. Would you consider adding brightmaps to some weapon sprites, namely the lightning gun?
P.S.: Just thought I'd mention that Doomstorm was broken by a revision some time ago...
Fair enough. I shall add confirmation text. It seems there´s some confusion over that.iSpook wrote:It's because monsters do 50% more damage on that skill level. To be honest DBThanatos should include that as a description in-game. Play LT, since it's closer to UV.Valherran wrote:More things and stuff.
I never liked using projectiles for hitscan because it messes up the interaction with scenery.iSpook wrote:If the railgunners immediately shot? Yeah it'd be cheap as fuck, but they don't, and if you keep moving they can't really hit you all that well (or often.) Personally I feel like the hit-scanners should be Fast-moving Tracer-projectiles but that's just me.
Ahn... to simulate that behavior in Doom all you have to do is just add logical sound names of non-existing sounds in the Machinegun's SNDINFO, something like this:DBThanatos wrote:In Q4, the gun plays a curious pattern of sound. It doesnt go "bam" every time a bullet is shot. It actually has a very curious pattern of "4 to 5 bams - pause - 4 to 5 bams - pause - etc...", so it generates an oddly satisfying sound pattern. Yet, that´s purely "sound-cosmetic" and the price to try to imitate that in game was too much fiddling around with when to play a sound and when not.
Code: Select all
$random weapons/mgunf { mgunf1 mgunf2 mgunf3 mgunf4 }
mgunf1 MGGF1 <- Real sound
mgunf2 MGGF2 <- Real sound
mgunf3 MGGF3 <- Fake sound
mgunf4 MGGF4 <- Real soundI don't have that kind of knowledge... but I can provide moral support if it helps.DBThanatos wrote:Brightmaps. Holy hell. Why did I never think of that. I'll have a look into how to even do them, and sure thing. I shall add them. If you have any experience with that and want to lend my a hand, that'd be great
For the railgun behavior, you would just call a A_FaceTarget and have a few frames called before the A_CustomMissile is executed. That would aim the enemy at the player and then give them a certain amount of time to react and dodge left/right.Machalite wrote:I don't have that kind of knowledge... but I can provide moral support if it helps.DBThanatos wrote:Brightmaps. Holy hell. Why did I never think of that. I'll have a look into how to even do them, and sure thing. I shall add them. If you have any experience with that and want to lend my a hand, that'd be great
Just another observation: when it comes to all the various railgun-type attacks, you can only avoid them if you are moving completely perpendicular (to the left or right of) to their origin. If you're moving at all towards or away from it, you don't carry enough lateral speed to avoid it. This creates weird results when you have something like the arachnatron or revenant replacements on the outside, and you're circle-strafing on the inside of them (MAP11 of Hellcore 2.0 says die). If you can't avoid having to move towards or away from one of these enemies, you'll get messed up. Dodging projectiles is comparatively simple, because you have much more freedom with how you can move to avoid them, as well as more time to execute. Movement is central to Doom gameplay, so if anything compromises that, it tends to fall apart.
With that being said, I didn't think there was anything that could be done about hitscan attacks. It'd make more sense if their railguns fired at the point where you were when they initiated their attack, the idea there being that you've already moved from that spot, and their aim doesn't follow you. That'd make them only a danger if you're standing still or moving straight at them, but I wasn't sure if that was possible. However you see it, none of these things are enough to make me want to stop playing. I'm just having to resort to cheap tactics and excessive saving. Playing this with Dark Tartarus is hilarious (actually, playing anything with it is).
Thanks. I might try this method, but I fear it will sometimes, given the random nature, play several silences in a row. I thought of building making a sound to be looped that does have that pattern. But I will have to test both.Zanieon wrote:Ahn... to simulate that behavior in Doom all you have to do is just add logical sound names of non-existing sounds in the Machinegun's SNDINFO, something like this:DBThanatos wrote:In Q4, the gun plays a curious pattern of sound. It doesnt go "bam" every time a bullet is shot. It actually has a very curious pattern of "4 to 5 bams - pause - 4 to 5 bams - pause - etc...", so it generates an oddly satisfying sound pattern. Yet, that´s purely "sound-cosmetic" and the price to try to imitate that in game was too much fiddling around with when to play a sound and when not.
This way the engine will play nothing at random times when firing as the lump sound doesn't exists.Code: Select all
$random weapons/mgunf { mgunf1 mgunf2 mgunf3 mgunf4 } mgunf1 MGGF1 <- Real sound mgunf2 MGGF2 <- Real sound mgunf3 MGGF3 <- Fake sound mgunf4 MGGF4 <- Real sound
Ah. The stealth monsters. Never considered since this is meant to be played with vanilla stuff. But that's an easy fix. Thanks for the report.iSpook wrote:Also, on another subject. I know it didn't have an upgrade but the DMG in this mod should have an upgrade. . . I dunno, maybe it either charge up a little quicker would be kinda neato. Either that or have it shoot the same kind of void-y bolts as it travels that one cyberdemon-teir guy does (Makron I think? My memory is horrid.)
Edit: You should replace the stealth monsters with normal ones. I just had to abort a recording because they weren't replaced. Heh.
I understand those points you made, but it is also to be noted that this, like almost any other gameplay mod, cant and should not try to imitate doom. If that was the case, what would be the point of the gameplay mod? Besides, quite a few custom maps are made to use and abuse doom "features" (like you mentioned, maps specifically designed with one thing in mind) and by using a mod, over a mod (gameplay mod on top of a mapset) there's no guarantee that everything will work 100% right.Machalite wrote:Just another observation: when it comes to all the various railgun-type attacks, you can only avoid them if you are moving completely perpendicular (to the left or right of) to their origin. If you're moving at all towards or away from it, you don't carry enough lateral speed to avoid it. This creates weird results when you have something like the arachnatron or revenant replacements on the outside, and you're circle-strafing on the inside of them (MAP11 of Hellcore 2.0 says die). If you can't avoid having to move towards or away from one of these enemies, you'll get messed up. Dodging projectiles is comparatively simple, because you have much more freedom with how you can move to avoid them, as well as more time to execute. Movement is central to Doom gameplay, so if anything compromises that, it tends to fall apart.
The problem with that, is that it kinda defeats the purpose of them having a railgun. I know is a different monster, but a shotgun guy will aim a you, have a small delay, and then shoot at you, not at where you were. It's the same principle. And the fact that the railgun monsters can miss the shot, means that they do have a delay too. But having the delay to be as long as from the moment they start "charging" the railgun to the moment they fire it, would be too easy.Machalite wrote:With that being said, I didn't think there was anything that could be done about hitscan attacks. It'd make more sense if their railguns fired at the point where you were when they initiated their attack, the idea there being that you've already moved from that spot, and their aim doesn't follow you.
Regardless of the conversation I made about the actual speed of the gun in the mod vs the original game, I think there might be a bit of a confusion, understandable, of course.Zhs2 wrote:If this is so lightning fast, why is the machine gun soooooo sloooooooooooooooow.................
Ah! that. There's an explanation for that. The shotgun can be easily found by killing any shotgun guy replacement, just like in the original doom. However, the hyper blaster can only be dropped by the HB tactical which is a monster that takes way longer to appear than a shotgun guy (the tacticals are revenants). So, to wait until you get a hyperblaster from a drop is a long way, and considering the larger arsenal (compared to doom) I had to make space for all the weapons to be found in a reliable way.blackfish wrote:DBThanatos, I mean that simply doing "summon shotgun" summons a Hyperblaster instead. In maps that spawn the Shotgun, a Hyperblaster is in place instead.
Nope. Hyper blaster only appears through shotgun spawner and dropped by the tacticals. SSG spot spawns either a grenade launcher, or rarely a railgun.Cryomundus wrote:If I recall correctly, I think Hyperblaster takes the spot of both the shotgun and the ssg. Which is weird, honestly.
Or I could be misremembering.