An open letter to the ZDoom community regarding drama

[Big C]

With all due respect, demo:

A) Ideas similar to yours have already been proposed and nothing immediately satisfactory was reached.

B) The way you phrased your suggestions sounded really unprofessional which isn't going to get accepted by any moderation team worth its salt.

C) Weasel. Doesn't. Use. The ketchup bottle. ANY. MORE.

[FireFish]

Necro-bumping, posting things, personal preference.... they had the chance to be a better person ?
Permanent moron or idiot tag because they did something idiotic on a forum... probably based upon personal opinions ?

Although the second one is being employed on Doomworld, the first one just proves why not everyone gets to be a moderator on a decent forum where opinions are shared and jokes being made.

[Hellser]

Weasel. Doesn't. Use. The ketchup bottle. ANY. MORE.

Imagine if people started to call us by our avatar? There's three Doctors on ZDoom; Gooberman, Xaser and myself.

[Trooper 077]

The hell happened with Sargent MarkV?

[Average]

The hell happened with Sargent MarkV?

A lot of inappropriate stuff was said (by Sarge and to Sarge...). It was all a long time ago now. In my opinion, the community should have moved on a long time ago too. Sadly, that's not the case. It seems we have our very own 'righteous target'. This behaviour (the failure to let go and the continued indignation towards a single person or topic) is exactly what is wrong with this forum and Doomworlds...

[Big C]

The hell happened with Sargent MarkV?

A lot of inappropriate stuff was said (by Sarge and to Sarge...). It was all a long time ago now. In my opinion, the community should have moved on a long time ago too. Sadly, that's not the case. It seems we have our very own 'righteous target'. This behaviour (the failure to let go and the continued indignation towards a single person or topic) is exactly what is wrong with this forum and Doomworlds...

Except for a few things:

A) People don't really talk that often about Sarge around here anymore as far as I can tell, this thread aside. And my problem is that some of his hangers-on sometimes bring the Brutal DooM community's problems to this forum, not Sarge himself.

B) Sarge AFAIK is still active at Doomworld and is about as poorly-behaved there---I remember seeing posts by him bragging in a rather disrespectful way that he could make better maps than iD could. So the Doomworld staff has a BIT more reason to not drop the subject, given that he's still active and little-changed there.

So yeah. The subject is technically dropped but leftover poo from that crapstorm still occasionally raises a stink here. And furthermore you're not even addressing the criticisms I had of non-Sarge long-time ZDoom forum regulars and just blaming everything on everyone else's inability to drop the subject of Sarge. So forgive me here, but I'm questioning both your argument and your motives.

...Furthermore, I feel like this thread is going in circles at this point, despite posts from some of the concerned parties and also the moderators. I think that tells me all I need to know at this point.

[Trance]

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt

Most people's attention fluctuates between both ends of that spectrum, but it's always better to be inclined towards the greater end than the lesser.

I honestly think a significant chunk of the discussion in this thread has made things worse than if the discussion had never been there. Nash most likely follows (or at least has followed some of) this thread, and I'll bet that seeing so many people casting judgment on him has made him a lot less inclined to rejoin the community. Ironically, certain individuals in this thread are guilty of the very thing they're berating Nash for doing: airing grievances with another member in public without a mind towards improving the situation.

People, this has got to be a cliché by now, but please aspire to more grown-up discussion. Stop focusing so much of your keystrokes on discussing other members of the forum and greater Doom community in a negative fashion. That's one of the biggest elements perpetuating forum drama. The sooner you guys break that habit, the sooner you will see drama all but disappear from the scene.

[Big C]

I *did* at least publically retract a lot of my criticism towards Nash. That much said, what *are* we supposed to do if we're getting tired of seeing other people argue in public? Take it up with the moderators via PM? Besides, a core complaint of mine was that it looked to me like people were just trying to ignore stuff that kept happening in public around here.

I know the moderators like to keep a relatively light touch around here out of good faith, but at the same time the only responses to misconduct I see around here are "a stern warning" and "outright ban", and not a whole lot of in-between. Correct me if I'm wrong. And problem users tend to usually only get banned after many, MANY minor offenses, even if they show next to no signs of improving.

tl;dr: How else are we supposed to air dirty laundry if someone's pissing us off and doesn't seem to be facing any consequences for it?

[Trance]

Ignoring shitty behavior on a constant basis is bad, yes. But I can guarantee you that moderators are not turning a blind eye to that stuff. It's their job to look out for and attempt to remedy problems regarding members' behavior. Let them handle it. If you're not already directly involved in it, you rarely have a good reason to get involved.

Some arguments and fights are still going to happen. But by not letting the drama spill into other people's discussion you'll be helping to prevent a small thing from becoming a much bigger thing.

The best way to fight the community's tendency to perpetuate drama is to lead by example. This is advice that applies to almost everyone following this thread. Make Eleanor proud.

[Average]

The hell happened with Sargent MarkV?

A lot of inappropriate stuff was said (by Sarge and to Sarge...). It was all a long time ago now. In my opinion, the community should have moved on a long time ago too. Sadly, that's not the case. It seems we have our very own 'righteous target'. This behaviour (the failure to let go and the continued indignation towards a single person or topic) is exactly what is wrong with this forum and Doomworlds...

...B) Sarge AFAIK is still active at Doomworld and is about as poorly-behaved there---I remember seeing posts by him bragging in a rather disrespectful way that he could make better maps than iD could. So the Doomworld staff has a BIT more reason to not drop the subject, given that he's still active and little-changed there.

So yeah. The subject is technically dropped but leftover poo from that crapstorm still occasionally raises a stink here. And furthermore you're not even addressing the criticisms I had of non-Sarge long-time ZDoom forum regulars and just blaming everything on everyone else's inability to drop the subject of Sarge. So forgive me here, but I'm questioning both your argument and your motives.

...Furthermore, I feel like this thread is going in circles at this point, despite posts from some of the concerned parties and also the moderators. I think that tells me all I need to know at this point.

Wow. Firstly, if anyone else other than Sarge had made the post on Doomworld you're referring too it would never have got the reception it got. Certainly, the tone would have been different.

As for questioning my motives: I was responding to a very specific question. I answered as specifically as I could while relating to the OP topic. Earlier in this thread I did, indeed, share my more general feelings.

Thanks for your understanding. You're forgiven.

[Big C]

@Trance: Alright, I guess.

@Average: Do you mean that if anyone besides Sarge had made the post it would have been better or worse received/whose tone would have been different?

Also, didn't notice your earlier response at first---am only able to check this thread somewhat intermittently. Apologies for not noticing earlier.

[Average]

@Trance: Alright, I guess.

@Average: Do you mean that if anyone besides Sarge had made the post it would have been better or worse received/whose tone would have been different?

Also, didn't notice your earlier response at first---am only able to check this thread somewhat intermittently. Apologies for not noticing earlier.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant the reception. Honestly, I don't think what he said in that thread was that bad. I just felt that people were a little too eager to take it the wrong way or get overly sensitive to something that wasn't that big a deal. Of course, there was little to no moderation thus implying that the jibes were acceptable.

Anyway, apology accepted.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

Imagine if people started to call us by our avatar? There's three Doctors on ZDoom; Gooberman, Xaser and myself.

then i would be called Princess Viscra Maelstrom.

wait

[Kostov]

On drums, John Bonham, Moby Dick!

[Kinsie]

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt