An open letter to the ZDoom community regarding drama

[Trooper 077]

No I meant in general, like don't be an ass in general on the forums.

I'd take it to the streets if I was calling you out. No worries

[Phobus]

Speaking as an old hand who still checks on here every now and then, drama has never been the problem here, really. Melodramatic responses to insults, criticism and events are universal online don't actually make a big difference most of the time. It's the people who take it to heart and get genuinely upset that end up suffering rather than any virtual community or sense thereof. Hell, 10 years ago when I joined up it was mostly a bunch of teenagers shitposting with a steady stream of mods coming out to justify us all being here flaming and image spamming eachother. This current environment is practically sterile in comparison.

If you want my personal opinion on what's killing this forum, so to speak, it's the combination of very ambitious things that never get finished and the fact that nobody (even people like me who complain about it) bothers making maps for ZDoom anymore. This place had a bigger draw and audience back in the early 00's when everybody was excitedly making Doom maps with extra features, so we had stuff to play, discuss and be inspired by every day or two, or so it seemed. Now everybody is embarking on making a new game, not finishing it and never really working on anything else (a mistake I made with Virus, WRT ZDoom). I suppose that's why Doomworld has such an active mapping community - there's always maps coming out and community projects and competitions where people can drop a quick map in.

Anyway, that's just what I think.

[Minigunner]

Two things made me lose a lot of faith in the ZDoom community:
1) One of the longest-standing members of the community being driven out over drama.
2) Spriting Carnival consisting of pretty much 99% model rips.
Can't fix 1 but something can be done about 2.

[Devianteist]

If you want my personal opinion on what's killing this forum, so to speak, it's the combination of very ambitious things that never get finished and the fact that nobody (even people like me who complain about it) bothers making maps for ZDoom anymore. This place had a bigger draw and audience back in the early 00's when everybody was excitedly making Doom maps with extra features, so we had stuff to play, discuss and be inspired by every day or two, or so it seemed. Now everybody is embarking on making a new game, not finishing it and never really working on anything else (a mistake I made with Virus, WRT ZDoom). I suppose that's why Doomworld has such an active mapping community - there's always maps coming out and community projects and competitions where people can drop a quick map in.

Anyway, that's just what I think.

That's pretty much what has become of my membership on these forums; making maps. Ironically, the very same reason you stated there is the reason I make maps (and also because I suck at everything else).

/offtopic

[Xtyfe]

Speaking as an old hand who still checks on here every now and then, drama has never been the problem here, really. Melodramatic responses to insults, criticism and events are universal online don't actually make a big difference most of the time. It's the people who take it to heart and get genuinely upset that end up suffering rather than any virtual community or sense thereof. Hell, 10 years ago when I joined up it was mostly a bunch of teenagers shitposting with a steady stream of mods coming out to justify us all being here flaming and image spamming eachother. This current environment is practically sterile in comparison.

If you want my personal opinion on what's killing this forum, so to speak, it's the combination of very ambitious things that never get finished and the fact that nobody (even people like me who complain about it) bothers making maps for ZDoom anymore. This place had a bigger draw and audience back in the early 00's when everybody was excitedly making Doom maps with extra features, so we had stuff to play, discuss and be inspired by every day or two, or so it seemed. Now everybody is embarking on making a new game, not finishing it and never really working on anything else (a mistake I made with Virus, WRT ZDoom). I suppose that's why Doomworld has such an active mapping community - there's always maps coming out and community projects and competitions where people can drop a quick map in.

Anyway, that's just what I think.

You can argue the reason for this is that now that these features are no longer new you are left with the learning curve of using them properly in a map. With Zdoom's development going at snail pace these days, that is all that is left. I'm making maps for Zdoom, but I have little faith when development isn't active and because of that I don't have a lot of motivation to work on it. Perhaps we need someone new to continue development?

[Tormentor667]

Just something to push the discussion even further: Do people have the feeling that this situation occured or got worse when Brutal Doom was released and many newcomers entered the community from the outside?

[Jeimuzu73]

Well, with Sarge Mark IV's past behavior and other guys trying to imitate him, I am not overly surprised.

[Big C]

Just something to push the discussion even further: Do people have the feeling that this situation occured or got worse when Brutal Doom was released and many newcomers entered the community from the outside?

Yes. It sure didn't help at any rate, but one-half of the people I aimed this thread at are the little cult that follows Sarge around, and while their numbers around here may not be as numerous there's still a few hangers-on that lurk around here that refuse to either learn the rules or learn to piss off. Tempted to name names but not sure if that's kosher, even if the mods themselves have demonstrated their disdain for the specific people involved.

We've got good Brutal DooMers around here---johnny, for example---but dear Lord there's more shitty newbies than I'd like who lack netiquette and often request Brutal DooM compatibility for no reason.

Sarge got some decently-skilled people into DooM modding but overall I'd say his influence has been mostly negative.

[Xtyfe]

I'd like to say we should encourage new people, but after that I'd say lock the the damn doors.

[Big C]

Generally I say we should encourage new people too but between the Brutal DooM dilemma and some long-timers acting like asses towards each other I have no idea how to do that.

On the other hand, Hideous Destructor has had a recent surge in add-ons made for it and I've been invited as a beta-tester for a mod, so it's hardly like the community is becoming inactive. \o/

[Project Shadowcat]

I'd like to say we should encourage new people, but after that I'd say lock the the damn doors.

Absolutely not. That's how communities get stale.

[NeuralStunner]

Absolutely not. That's how communities get stale.

Eh, what the hell do you know? You've only been around for ten years.

New members are only something to celebrate if they have a reason to care about the place they're joining. If they're just here to run a low-maintenance clique chatroom, they might as well not be here. (Though that last part doesn't only apply to new[/i ]members, of course...)

[ibm5155]

to fix brutal doom iuse, I think sgt.mark iv should create a brutal doom forum

[Kostov]

[NeuralStunner]

Well that's an unfortunate way to be. Hating someone like that only hurts yourself.

Should mention that I've talked to Edward via Steam on as number of occasions (sometimes about ZDoom, sometimes not), and he's not that bad.