Positive ZDoom development

[Xtyfe]

I have been playing catch up on the last few months of ZDoom development. Reading over the history of the last few months I have noticed a sharp increase in development activity with many different people submitting things such as Major Cooke and such.

It's been so long since I have seen things so lively. The last time I was active it seemed like things were in a slump. I have to say it has inspired me to dig some old stuff up and start mapping again. Congrats guys! And please don't stop

[Nash]

Yeah, in retrospect, the move to Git was the smartest thing to happen. I feel ashamed for talking so much shit about Git back there... :P

[Graf Zahl]

Whether it all is good or bad remains to be seen. Much of the growth right now may easily be considered cancerous because there's little to no coordination going on. I just hope it doesn't eventually blow up.

[DaMan]

Longhorn Zdoom 3.0 delayed after code reset.
Jim Allchin Randy Heit, who had overall responsibility for the development and delivery of Windows Zdoom, explained how development of Longhorn Zdoom was "crashing into the ground" due in large part to the haphazard methods by which features were introduced and integrated into the core of the operating system program, without a clear focus on an end-product.

[Xtyfe]

Yes the inception of git seems to the where this all happened. Sure it might be a little crazy, but I still think any development it better than none.

[Blzut3]

It is actually quite impressive how much activity ZDoom has gotten, however I'm with NeuralStunner in that it seems like code quality is going down a bit because of some of the submissions. I personally haven't said anything since I honestly don't know what the solution to the problem is without discouraging people.

One thing I do know that would probably help is for ZDoom to have a release schedule so that we can have periodic feature freezes.

there's little to no coordination going on.

As opposed to before?

[Graf Zahl]

With only 3 people it was easier to manage.

And to be honest, I believe the code base needs a break to clean things up a bit. Well, I guess that's due after the scripting branch gets merged.

[Enjay]

Whether it all is good or bad remains to be seen. Much of the growth right now may easily be considered cancerous because there's little to no coordination going on. I just hope it doesn't eventually blow up.

I have to say that this doubt has been nagging at me for some time now as well. There has been a lot of stuff added and that's exciting and cool but there doesn't seem to be an overall direction with much of the stuff. Much of it seems to have been added piecemeal for personal interest or need without an overview of how it all fits in. An awful lot of it has needed post-addition fixes, patches and tweaks and much of it strikes me as stuff that (much as I hate to say it) really should be WFDS.

At least that's how it seems to a relative layman. I haven't said anything before simply because I don't know enough to be sure whether my misgivings are properly founded or not. To be honest, I still don't know but at least I've aired my concerns.

[Xtyfe]

Whether it all is good or bad remains to be seen. Much of the growth right now may easily be considered cancerous because there's little to no coordination going on. I just hope it doesn't eventually blow up.

I have to say that this doubt has been nagging at me for some time now as well. There has been a lot of stuff added and that's exciting and cool but there doesn't seem to be an overall direction with much of the stuff. Much of it seems to have been added piecemeal for personal interest or need without an overview of how it all fits in. An awful lot of it has needed post-addition fixes, patches and tweaks and much of it strikes me as stuff that (much as I hate to say it) really should be WFDS.

At least that's how it seems to a relative layman. I haven't said anything before simply because I don't know enough to be sure whether my misgivings are properly founded or not. To be honest, I still don't know but at least I've aired my concerns.

It does sound like something needs to happen to organize everything.

[NeuralStunner]

And to be honest, I believe the code base needs a break to clean things up a bit. Well, I guess that's due after the scripting branch gets merged.

Given how nice some fo the scripting features are turning out for front-end functionality (E.G. packed action functions per frame), I wouldn't argue with a few days of feature freeze, followed by an official release with those features.

Actually I would like to see more official releases in general, perhaps monthly. It is really hard to get inexperienced/clueless users to use a dev build. ("But I have the latest version!")

It is actually quite impressive how much activity ZDoom has gotten, however I'm with NeuralStunner in that it seems like code quality is going down a bit because of some of the submissions. I personally haven't said anything since I honestly don't know what the solution to the problem is without discouraging people.

Personally I think the best solution is a guide/checklist for code submission. I think the the major problem is that submissions are getting too rushed, possibly due to perceived demand - Time needs to be taken to test changes, especially on the submitter's side. Certainly you can't catch every esoteric use case, but often it looks like changes were made and submitted without even compiling and testing them.

I've made two code submissions, both of which I tested extensively first. (Probably overkill, but I even shared the diffs with another user to make sure it worked correctly for them.) When they were finally submitted and merged, they got a developer review and (in one case) adjustment. It was a direct interaction with developers and development that felt very positive. A lot of submissions/merges these days seem a lot more impersonal for some reason.


... Also, I think this is the first time I've seen a thread like this during a time when Randy is active on the forum.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Actually I would like to see more official releases in general, perhaps monthly. It is really hard to get inexperienced/clueless users to use a dev build. ("But I have the latest version!")

This.

Not only for that reason, as official versions are infinitely better to use for minimum requirements, tried-and-tested versions etc. simply because they don't disappear after a few weeks. (that and the fact that dev builds go up nearly every week and something can easily break etc.)

Trouble is, even the official versions are harder to track down atm.

[NeuralStunner]

Trouble is, even the official versions are harder to track down atm.

They are?

[edward850]

Actually I would like to see more official releases in general, perhaps monthly. It is really hard to get inexperienced/clueless users to use a dev build. ("But I have the latest version!")

I wonder if it would make sense for ZDoom to adopt a "nightly/tag" release method for the front page. i.e a more official DRDTeam devbuilds approach, mixed in with tagged "milestone" releases.

... Honestly we basically treat it like that already.

[Xtyfe]

... Also, I think this is the first time I've seen a thread like this during a time when Randy is active on the forum.

Is that bad?

[Blzut3]

I wonder if it would make sense for ZDoom to adopt a "nightly/tag" release method for the front page. i.e a more official DRDTeam devbuilds approach, mixed in with tagged "milestone" releases.

I would much rather see a traditional release schedule which includes the maint branch and a merge window for features. It would be very helpful for Zandronum.