DECK: Doom Engine Creator's Kit

[GooberMan]

I have thought of jumping on the OpenAL thing for a while. But the problem is that if you want to support all the features of FMOD that ZDoom uses (including the formats supported) then that requires vendor/platform specific code (especially if you want to hook in to hardware support on platforms that have it). It's not a small task, and OpenAL is proprietary these days so you'd want to find another cross-platform API to use if you only want to write your code once.

[JPL]

Clarification: I'm interested in contributions from anyone who's responded so far to this thread, and anyone who hasn't posted yet - this thread is for asking questions, there's no public approval process I'm conducting here - just go ahead and submit anything you'd like to doomdeck@gmail.com . Thanks!

[XCVG]

A few comments and things I would like to see. I apologize if I seem a bit pushy; I'm basically just hammering down a running commentary as I go through the asset list.

NPCs should really have death sprites. Maybe not attack sprites, but not having death sprites significantly limits their usefulness. One of the cutscenes in Ascension Revolution is a bunch of knights attacking a village, which necessitates that villagers have death sequences. Not everyone wants to make an RPG where you can murder everyone, but scripted deaths of minor characters are common. Having to choose a "monster" rather than an "NPC" sprite for any character that needs to die limits options. More morbidly, this provides you with a good variety of corpses to build darker environments with.

I see terminal and wall switch textures but no standalone switch textures. Switch textures with a switch patch on a standard wall patch are common in Doom, but I find myself using standalone switches on consoles, pedestals, or inset panels more.

Waterfalls should match water textures in colour and animation. Ideally, the same person would make both.

Shiny and less shiny metal, like SHAWN and SILVER textures, is incredibly useful. I didn't see it in the textures and this is quite a useful texture to have.

Forget one light flat for both modern and sci-fi. You can make a variety of light textures by making a light graphic and plastering it over various flats.

More weapons. I'm assuming that these will be added if/when people submit them, but I feel that at least a few more should be part of the basic requirements of the project. Perhaps a knife and assault rifle, or something like a bow and arrow or magic staff for medieval.

Don't bother with muzzle flash frames. These suck and I rarely see newer weapons use them.

You mention old-style keys but don't provide any stub. Try the Wolfenstein keys.

Make the ammo box generic rather than "rockets", then you can use it for more.

I didn't know the red cross was copyrighted. A viable alternative might be the Rod of Asclepius.

Seriously consider voxels or models for world objects like lamps and chairs. Sprite objects (except those that are round) look terrible. But maybe that's just me, so you can ignore this line.

Small "clutter" objects can really make a map feel more real. Stuff like pencils, bottles, cans, boxes, that sort of thing. Some of these can be built as part of map geometry but some are better as sprites.

Wooden barrel. That is all.

Generic explosions, sparks, and debris are always useful.

Rocks in addition to trees.

If you have multiple player character sprites (which is something I would like to see), then you need a status bar face for each one. I'm not sure if status bar faces are really needed considering only Doom had them, but the status bar itself is necessary unless someone codes a new HUD.

Main menu selector should be something generic like an arrow or diamond rather than something specific like a skull or sword.

I would really like to see the source material (Photoshop PSD or other layered formats, 3D models if used to make sprites, sheet music for instrumentals) released in addition to the final material for modification and reuse. These will be bigger and can be a separate package for those who want it.

I'm not really good at art, but I'll see if I can contribute something.

[XutaWoo]

For a quick reference, unarmed ( and basically alternate weapon ) and interacting player sprites, as well as interacting weapon sprites, are something you have to basically hack into GZDoom. It's better off to take those off the asset list, as it's something better implemented per mod as otherwise it could get in the way of modifying the kit due to complexity and wonkiness.

[torridgristle]

Don't bother with muzzle flash frames. These suck and I rarely see newer weapons use them.

No, visual feedback is important. It should be available in the Doom Engine Creator's Kit for the creators to use if they decide to do so.

[XCVG]

Visual feedback? I'm not saying don't provide muzzle flash, I'm saying draw the muzzle flash over the gun instead of providing separate overlay sprites. I know I did a terrible job of articulating that.

[twinkieman93]

Visual feedback? I'm not saying don't provide muzzle flash, I'm saying draw the muzzle flash over the gun instead of providing separate overlay sprites. I know I did a terrible job of articulating that.

It results in a slightly smaller filesize if you have a weapon which for whatever reason has multiple different muzzle flashes(two big sprites versus one big one and two much smaller ones). I doubt the difference is significant, but hey, some people really like to heavily optimize their mods.

[XutaWoo]

Plus, that allows you to not light up the entire gun if you don't want to make brightmaps. Probably the entire reason id went with the overlay sprites, honestly, since they didn't have the technology for certain pixels to remain bright.

[TheDoomGuy]

I really like this idea. It may encourage more interest for people trying to make their own content. I've often considered how one might go about packaging ZDoom into something a little more like an actual game creation tool (a la RPG Maker... because it totally has that potential--seeing as how brand new, unique games can and have been designed with it). This may just be the ticket.

[XCVG]

I guess I just hate the firing frames because I always botch the DECORATE.

EDIT:

I have thought of jumping on the OpenAL thing for a while. But the problem is that if you want to support all the features of FMOD that ZDoom uses (including the formats supported) then that requires vendor/platform specific code (especially if you want to hook in to hardware support on platforms that have it). It's not a small task, and OpenAL is proprietary these days so you'd want to find another cross-platform API to use if you only want to write your code once.

What are other Doom source ports using these days? What about other FOSS game engines like ioquake3 and Blender Game Engine?

[Ed_C]

I have been building a mapper's resource pack with the same intent as DECK and would be glad to contribute my set to this project.

Screenshots:

---

Base set:


Steel Set:


Concrete Set:


Floors / ground / misc:


Set in action:

These array images are 25% to scale of the original textures. A 128 unit texture = 512x512 image. Brightmaps, TEXTURES lump are completed. I was making a set with advanced mapping in mind. Many useful cuts for commonly used slope angles. Ultimately, my goal is for all the mapping constructs to be in place and put it out with a player model, one weapon, Iwad definition files, GUI replaced and a small example map to be included.

I'm also working on some MD2 based geometry pieces to go with it (pipes, light fixtures, conduit boxes ect) and would like to include useful DECORATE objects (steam, hazy fog, sparks, drips).

I'm not sure if it's your intent to have a large scale pack as the remaining resources would have to be made to scale, and that's a bigger job, but it's a pretty good start.

Edit: wording.

[leileilol]

I probably have some throwaway random sound effects I produced from scratch for the taking. Producing good sounds for OA leaves a lot of scrapped leftovers.

[JPL]

I have been building a mapper's resource pack with the same intent as DECK and would be glad to contribute my set to this project.

These array images are 25% to scale of the original textures. A 128 unit texture = 512x512 image. Brightmaps, TEXTURES lump are completed. I was making a set with advanced mapping in mind. Many useful cuts for commonly used slope angles. Ultimately, my goal is for all the mapping constructs to be in place and put it out with a player model, one weapon, Iwad definition files, GUI replaced and a small example map to be included.

I'm also working on some MD2 based geometry pieces to go with it (pipes, light fixtures, conduit boxes ect) and would like to include useful DECORATE objects (steam, hazy fog, sparks, drips).

I'm not sure if it's your intent to have a large scale pack as the remaining resources would have to be made to scale, and that's a bigger job, but it's a pretty good start.

These are great, thanks! Between this and some related offers of support, I think it will be good to have an example level that shows off this kind of editing, hi-def professional-looking content that uses advanced GZDoom features, for people that are interested in that.

[JPL]

XCVG, thanks a lot for the exhaustive feedback - lots of good points, I'll update the asset list page soon to reflect some of those suggestions.

[XCVG]

Table objects from Ascension Revolution:

---

They're pretty bad and actually intended as placeholders, so I don't recommend using them, but there's an idea of what I mean.

I also tried my hand at doing the health pickups, which was probably a bad idea.



The pouches turned out okay, I think, but I couldn't do a decent Rod of Asclepius. If anyone wants to try fixing it, the PSDs are available here and here. The Freedoom health kits were used as a pattern only, but I ended up making them look more like the Doom ones.