EDGE 2.1.0 Discussion [RC-1 Released on 10.3.2018]

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EDGE Demo Support (EDM)

Postby Coraline » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:55 pm

VGA wrote:Serious bug in EDGE-2.1.0pre-501-g41c4e21

In NERVE.WAD MAP04, the texture on the exit room door is somehow offset. In Gzdoombuilder and Doom Retro it looks OK.

Will look into it. There's no official support for Nerve yet, but I'll add it very soon.

For the curious:

So, making a new devbuild - this one has Demo record and playback support!

It manages its own demo format, named EDM. And I'm working on converting regular LMP demos over to the new system (an internal converter will pop it into the EDM format). Right now its a WIP - you have to exit the game once you are done with the current demo. Map changes work, but playback won't swap the level.

New command-line options are:

-playdemo (Plays back an EDM)
-record (Records your demo)
-time demo (for stats)

Look for this very soon! :-)
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby riderr3 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:25 am

My antivirus prohibit to download 3DGE. I'll just open it with 7ZIP in temp folder and extract files :P
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby NeuralStunner » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:01 pm

Something I didn't find mentioned on the wiki: Does this support NPO2 flats? (I have at least a couple 96x96 images that I'd rather not scale down...)
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby Coraline » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:06 pm

@NeuralStunner: if they are not NPO2, I believe EDGE will either automatically resize them or try to render them anyway. If you have odd-size flat sizes that aren't supported, I
can easily add their dimensions into the engine.

So, Test4 is coming soon -- among lots of changes (ROQ is finally working 100%); revamped WAV handling code also introducing a low-pass filter (so 8bit sounds don't sound
too hissy or ugly due to resizing, courtesy of Icculus), smoother vsync and swapinterval rendering code, more shaders such as FXAA, and of course more bugfixes for certain
things that really needed them. Also DEMO support. =)

This time, we will be providing a binary for Linux users as well.

On the roadmap -> 2.1.0 Final, I'm still working on networking fixups, more main menu customizations, better error handling, and Wolf3D/ROTT stuff.

@CeeJay: we also fixed the glBSP problem with not generating nodes inside of archives (though this was working before, it didn't work with custom maptypes defined in LEVELS.DDF).
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby Voltcom9 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:21 pm

^
TEST 4 is being released soon? Excellent! That's fantastic news!
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby NeuralStunner » Tue May 01, 2018 6:09 pm

Coraline wrote:if they are not NPO2, I believe EDGE will either automatically resize them or try to render them anyway. If you have odd-size flat sizes that aren't supported, I can easily add their dimensions into the engine.
The only things I have so far: A 96x96 liquid texture from Hexen 2, and a few 1:2 flats. (E.G. 128x256 - To work around an old, oft-regretted feature in ZDoom.)

Alternatively, I might be fine throwing all the new flats into the texture namespace, since I've found that 3DGE supports that as well. The only thing I'm unsure of is whether animations will work properly in that case. (Does ANIMATED warping only work on flats?)
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby CeeJay » Wed May 02, 2018 9:30 pm

Coraline wrote:@NeuralStunner: if they are not NPO2, I believe EDGE will either automatically resize them or try to render them anyway. If you have odd-size flat sizes that aren't supported, I
can easily add their dimensions into the engine.

So, Test4 is coming soon -- among lots of changes (ROQ is finally working 100%); revamped WAV handling code also introducing a low-pass filter (so 8bit sounds don't sound
too hissy or ugly due to resizing, courtesy of Icculus), smoother vsync and swapinterval rendering code, more shaders such as FXAA, and of course more bugfixes for certain
things that really needed them. Also DEMO support. =)

This time, we will be providing a binary for Linux users as well.

On the roadmap -> 2.1.0 Final, I'm still working on networking fixups, more main menu customizations, better error handling, and Wolf3D/ROTT stuff.

@CeeJay: we also fixed the glBSP problem with not generating nodes inside of archives (though this was working before, it didn't work with custom maptypes defined in LEVELS.DDF).


Good news. Will the other issues with the archive format be fixed too? Like how resources sharing names with vanilla being ignored (TROO####, BON2####, etc.).
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby NeuralStunner » Mon May 14, 2018 2:01 pm

Something else I've run into: To properly make new liquids for Heretic, I'll need to define splashes & floor clipping for them. Is there a way to do this yet?
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby Coraline » Mon May 21, 2018 11:50 am

NeuralStunner wrote:Something else I've run into: To properly make new liquids for Heretic, I'll need to define splashes & floor clipping for them. Is there a way to do this yet?

Not yet -- we are actually working on a new DDF called DDFTERRAIN, which will allow you to define such a thing on a more explicit basis.

So, I've released another Devbuild that I would really like end-users to test out. Among small stuff, I've restored the PointToAngle code, restored the old BOUNCE behavior,
and made some additional fixes here and there. It's coming along, but I definitely need help testing it. Getting down to the grind here! Also, we've upgraded to the newest
SDL2 and fixed audio under Windows.

EDGE-2.1.0-r7804

The next devbuild will have more important things fixed (images not overriding properly) and demo support (and hopefully x64 builds!!!!), so stay tuned :wub:

A Note About Bug Reporting:

PLEASE, if you are reporting bugs, make a small example map showing the issue -- we simply do not have time to test huge modifications. Just isolate the code or mod
to something that we can quickly inspect and correct, otherwise we might never encounter the problem as we just don't have the time. Just describing the problem is not
enough for us -- we MUST have an example that we can use which replicates your issue! Thanks =)
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby NeuralStunner » Wed May 23, 2018 10:24 pm

Coraline wrote:Not yet -- we are actually working on a new DDF called DDFTERRAIN, which will allow you to define such a thing on a more explicit basis.
Sweet! Looks like I'll have cross-port support out of the gate, as soon as I'm ready to push this pack. :D

(The one other thing I'm looking at for the future is decals for flags and whatnot, to save on ridiculous amounts of texture compositing.)
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu May 24, 2018 5:19 am

Coraline wrote:A Note About Bug Reporting:

PLEASE, if you are reporting bugs, make a small example map showing the issue -- we simply do not have time to test huge modifications. Just isolate the code or mod
to something that we can quickly inspect and correct, otherwise we might never encounter the problem as we just don't have the time. Just describing the problem is not
enough for us -- we MUST have an example that we can use which replicates your issue! Thanks =)


The same obviously applies to GZDoom (and other ports, of course) as well. Bugs without a ready-to-test example are a developer's nightmare. They cost a lot of time and chances are high that due to the effort required to create a testable setup they tend to start to collect dust.
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu May 24, 2018 5:23 am

Coraline wrote:Not yet -- we are actually working on a new DDF called DDFTERRAIN, which will allow you to define such a thing on a more explicit basis.



I think at some point in the future all developers of advanced ports need to sit together and define a coherent cross-port standard for this stuff. It's a major hassle for all would-be modders that they have to create three redundant setups for this stuff if they want to target GZDoom, Eternity and EDGE with the same mod.

Even with UDMF and UMAPINFO there's still far too much common ground where each one has their custom format.
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby wolfmanfp » Thu May 24, 2018 10:51 am

Graf Zahl wrote:GZDoom, Eternity and EDGE

What about Doomsday? :D
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby Coraline » Thu May 24, 2018 7:17 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:
Coraline wrote:Not yet -- we are actually working on a new DDF called DDFTERRAIN, which will allow you to define such a thing on a more explicit basis.



I think at some point in the future all developers of advanced ports need to sit together and define a coherent cross-port standard for this stuff. It's a major hassle for all would-be modders that they have to create three redundant setups for this stuff if they want to target GZDoom, Eternity and EDGE with the same mod.

Even with UDMF and UMAPINFO there's still far too much common ground where each one has their custom format.


Agreed, but I have always preferred such solutions that are drafted completely, and every developer helps the other who's interested in it write the solution that is port agnostic. Otherwise, say if it was written with all of the GZDoom-isms (initially, not talking about after implementation), it would take our team a long time to port and develop new solutions for things (even template-heavy things). I know the ultimate solution is to just rewrite major parts of EDGE to act in-line with the other modder-friendly ports - but we don't have that kind of time while dealing with all of the other issues we are focusing on.

But yeah, I would be 100% open to developing a standard with a group from the start. Unlike UDMF, which wasn't anyone's fault but our own for being late to implement it. =)
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Re: 3DGE 2.1.0 Test3 Released (12.13.2017)

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri May 25, 2018 2:27 am

That's why I said it should be done in the future, when we have an overview of what features it needs. It makes no sense to hammer something out unless all participating ports' capabilities are on the table.

wolfmanfp wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:GZDoom, Eternity and EDGE

What about Doomsday? :D


What about it? Is its developer even active in the Doom community? Doomsday also doesn't really qualify as a modding friendly port. Its main focus has always been to provide improved visuals to the IWADs.

Common definition features are of most interest to ports that offer advanced editing features. Right now that's the 3 I listed.

Aside from the visuals, Doomsday hasn't really improved much in all other fields: It's still slow and it still has the most limited hardware renderer when it comes to handling vanilla render hacks or even Boom features. In case you haven't noticed: There's not much talk going on anymore about Doomsday either here or at Doomworld. Its audience is something entirely different, namely people who are looking for a quick'n'easy way to beef up the visuals of the IWADs.
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