Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

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thesleeve
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by thesleeve »

After playing through this a bit, I can tell you, it's really hard! Classic Doom has a respawn time of 30 seconds, and I chose 40 seconds because Brutal Doom makes everything a little bit harder... but it's still pretty insane. I'm having trouble getting past E1M4.

In any event, I realized that classic Doom's Nightmare difficulty gives you double ammo as a way to balance out the difficulty a bit, and it also makes the monsters faster. So, to stay true to the original, I updated the wads in the original post.
thesleeve
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by thesleeve »

Another quick update. I now give you access to all 5 classic difficulty levels...

I'm too young to die
Hey, not too rough
Hurt me plenty
Ultra violence
Nightmare

The skills are configured exactly as in the original, except that monsters will respawn 40 seconds after dying on all difficulty levels, not just Nightmare.
blackasm
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by blackasm »

it looks like with your mod pain elementals are replaced by mancubus, or at least in the 10th level of doom 2 wasn't sure it that was on purpose (since it might create too many skulls)
thesleeve
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by thesleeve »

Thanks for reporting that, blackasm

That definitely was not intentional. I will look at it tonight and see if I can fix the problem. It was probably just a typo in the code.
thesleeve
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by thesleeve »

blackasm wrote:it looks like with your mod pain elementals are replaced by mancubus, or at least in the 10th level of doom 2 wasn't sure it that was on purpose (since it might create too many skulls)
Thanks again for reporting this. I just fixed this bug, and I will replace the files in my original post.

By the way, I also discovered another bug in testing - the chaingun guy was dropping two chainguns! :lol: I fixed that one as well.
Jayc Yu

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by Jayc Yu »

This mod is amazing!
I played a bit of Ultimate Doom when I was a kid. With ZDoom + Brutal Doom install + Monster Respawning, the game is much much more fun. Now there's always something to shoot at!
However, I find that there's a need to adjust the respawning clock.
Can you tell me how to "replace the "1400" in the DECORATE lumps"?
thesleeve
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by thesleeve »

Jayc Yu wrote:Can you tell me how to "replace the "1400" in the DECORATE lumps"?
Get Slade from http://slade.mancubus.net/

Open the wad file in Slade.

You'll see two entries: DECORATE and MAPINFO. Open DECORATE.

Search for all instances of:
Spawn:
TNT1 A 1400

Replace the 1400 with the number you wish to use. A bigger number will result in a longer respawn time.

Make sure to save changes before exiting Slade!
Blazko
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:21 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by Blazko »

In the classic nightmare mode the enemies resurrect after some time. In BrütalDoom we have so many gibs lying around that an idea came up to use these gibs as a gamplay/graphic feature for nightmare mode. You probably know the Schwarzenegger-movie Terminator 2 and you remember the scene when the liquidmetal T1000 gets burst by a pistolshot after being frozen by liquid nitrogen. But that did not mean death for the T1000: the small droplets of liquid metal started moving towards each other so that they built bigger puddles and these puddles formed together to build the T1000 again. By now you probably realized the idea: The gibs in BrütalDoom could start moving towards each other. First the very small gibs forming bigger gibs and then these bigger gibs forming the dead (but intact) body and this body then gets resurrected just as in classic Doom. This would be a fancy visual effect I guess, but perhaps more important, it might also be interesting from a gameplay perspective: The more you gibbed the monsters, the longer it takes for them to resurrect, because all those gibs have to find each other before forming the intact body. The foresighted player might even find it good to shoot already dead enemies in order to gib them, so that resurrection takes longer. For the player that means that he has to find a balance between spending ammo or having to hurry. BURNED enemies and gibs might NOT be able to resurrect, which would make burning weapons (mancubus gun, plasma rifle)and burning barrels all the more valuable. And if the gibs are distributed on different heights of the level, they will tend to move towards the one which is lowest and form the new body there, because gibs cannot wander upwards. For the moving of the gibs some rolling animation could be created so that it doesnt look (too) weird.
This mechanism would require the gibs to be permanent. In the current version of BD the gibs (and other things) vanish after a certain amount of ticks. I believe that in v20 the amount of ticks will be significantly increased. As computers are getting faster, permanent gibs may not be impossible to realize soon, opening the path for this gib wandering mechanism. Finally I want to say that I do not regard the Nightmare mode as a super hard mode, like harder than Black Metal. It is just a means to give some time restraint to the player and thus to avoid boring gameplay. I could even imagine this mechanism on the easier difficulty settings, just happening much slower than on the higher settings: Gibs start wandering only after a minute and they move very slowly, so that it takes 2 or 3 minutes until the body is resurrected. On higher difficulty settings all this could happen much faster. What do you think of this idea? Worth trying it? I imagine a situation where you just cleared a room from 30 zombies with your rocketlauncher, then you go further and from afar you look back and observe – to your horror – that the gibs are moving, forming together and building the monsters again... Or you are shooting an already wandering gib, to prevent it from joining other gibs...
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lolwut?
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:41 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by lolwut? »

Why did you have to bump a thread that hasn't been posted in for almost a year?
Blazko
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:21 am

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by Blazko »

Because this thread is about Nightmare mode and I am talking about Nightmare mode. What do you think where I should have posted these thoughts?
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wildweasel
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Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by wildweasel »

It would probably help if you had used paragraphs. That's a pretty huge wall of text that's a bit difficult to read.
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Coincident
Posts: 84
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Location: Portugal

Re: Monster Respawning (Nightmare) for Brutal Doom

Post by Coincident »

thesleeve wrote:The original Doom had a spawn time of 30 seconds, but since Brutal Doom makes everything a bit faster paced and generally more difficult, I chose 40 seconds so that the player doesn't get overwhelmed
I was under the impression that the original doom spawn time was random. At least that is what's stated in doom wiki: http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Spawning#Monster_respawning
doomwiki.org wrote:The respawning happens after a randomized time delay (roughly 8 seconds to 5 minutes)
So, in the original doom, the average spawn time was 154 secs (2mins 34secs).
You chose 40 seconds so the player is not overwhelmed, eh? Well you just made monsters respawn 4 times faster than the original doom! :lol:

Worse: imagine that you quickly clear a 20-monster room with 4 BFG blasts.
In the original doom, each monster would get a different random time, and over the course of 5 minutes, you would get a steady flow of respawning monsters.
In your mod, after 40 seconds, they all respawn simultaneously, so you get a uncontrolable burst of monsters.
If you're at the wrong place, at the wrong time, you will get swarmed and killed.

Don't get me wrong - I really like your idea for this mod.
I think that brutal doom lacks the challenge of nightmare mode, and I appreciate what you've done.
But am I mistaken about these numbers?

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