Zauberer

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Matt
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Matt »

Enjay wrote:I'm not really sure why it happens. There are plenty of people capable of creating original content - and they do - but very little gets contributed to these projects. Mind you, I haven't really helped either. If this project is still "live", say, 5 years from now, I expect that the IWAD will still be populated with many placeholders.
The explanation seems obvious to me: the amount of time, effort and energy spent contributing to a project over which you have minimal if any control and for which people will most likely not remember you is far, far, far more than, say, the cost of simply buying the original game even combined with the social cost of telling other people to spend more money on same. I'd say even at the original full retail price, let alone the discounted amount you're paying for a 15-20-year-old game.

Further, quite a few mods use modified canon-IWAD resources that effectively (and, at least if you want your mod to work under Canada's new "mashup clause", legally) require that the modder at least strongly recommend the user to play with a legit copy of the commercial game. (Playing Brutal Doom with Freedoom doesn't really look too horrid given at least things are more or less in the same position, but the seams are frightfully obvious.)

And then there's just the fact that generally "community project" = "herding cats".

I don't want to be a huge downer with this post or anything, but I think I have highlighted a couple of the bigger pitfalls for such a project that might be avoided with some different structuring. (EDIT: in other words what LLL said below)


EDIT: A bit anecdotal, but basically every professional graphics person I know is pretty territorial about their copyrights (rightly so, given how cutthroat the trade is and the sheer amount of careless infringement that goes around) and would at best scoff, at worst boggle at a concept like free software, and even if they had the time and enthusiasm to contribute to a project like this without pay would almost certainly insist on something like a Creative Commons non-commercial licence.
Last edited by Matt on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cire
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

*Outdated version, see first post for the current version*
New version up with Jade Wand as replacement for Sapphire Wand thanks to Eriance.
Last edited by Cire on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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leileilol
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Re: Zauberer

Post by leileilol »

Free Software projects usually work with a contributors / patch submitting system, which can be very different to how a zdoom mod is developed. It's true that stagnation exists for all these Free projects, nothing is truly complete. Posts saying it'll take years sound like a dead horse by now. OpenArena is a DM game and even that's not really complete (ok, so it's modeling is feature complete with all the items and weapons modeled, but they're bad and need rebooting)

Plus, you don't even have to follow the original design principles that plagued Hexen. It could have the potential to be a better game as far as a game goes, even with little to no code changes. That's what i'm hoping for with Haktoria, so it doesn't play as banal as Hexen II, reviewing the mistakes of the original game and trying to avoid them. Try watching Hexen II Let's Plays and livestreams, it can be a grueling experience.
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

The first post has been updated with a new version with a SNDINFO prototype added.
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

First post updated with new version with 35 Oblige placeholder maps.
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

Zauberer is now on GitHub.
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Ed the Bat
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Ed the Bat »

Have you thought about what kind of maps you'll want this project to have in the end? Full of twists and turns and puzzles like the original Hexen? Or something a bit more straight-forward, like Doom and Heretic had? I'd personally prefer something towards the simple side of things, to better emphasize action over wandering around.
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Matt
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Matt »

Seconding the bat.

One thing I really love about Freedoom is how totally no-holds-barred it is in its difficulty - there's a certain sense of complexity and unforgivingness you'd never see in the canonical Doom maps.

Genuinely bringing something new to the table free of the assumptions of the original can really bring a spark of life to a project.
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Ed the Bat
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Ed the Bat »

Vaecrius wrote:Seconding the bat.

One thing I really love about Freedoom is how totally no-holds-barred it is in its difficulty - there's a certain sense of complexity and unforgivingness you'd never see in the canonical Doom maps.

Genuinely bringing something new to the table free of the assumptions of the original can really bring a spark of life to a project.
Well-said. Making the project different, even if not radically so, helps set it apart from its inspiration; makes it more than just a half-hearted clone. That's why Freedoom, and even what little is finished of Blasphemer, are worth playing, as they're each their own game. Otherwise, if they were just straight clones of Doom and Heretic, there'd be no real reason not to just play Doom and Heretic.

I'm eager to see what grows from these beginnings for Zauberer. I have good memories of playing custom projects for Hexen because they took things in new directions. Having a new one in the field is always welcome.
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Re: Zauberer

Post by twinkieman93 »

leileilol wrote:Try watching Hexen II Let's Plays and livestreams, it can be a grueling experience.
Try PLAYING the damn game. No amount of pre-acquired knowledge can prepare you for trying to, and I use this term lightly in this context, "solve" a puzzle where the sole determining factor of your success is whether you can guess correctly which of three patterns will be the solution to the puzzle. Get it wrong? Oh, no big deal, you have to guess again. And run all the way back from the start of the level to do so. Did I mention the solution changes every time you get it wrong? Have fun!

Seriously, what were they thinking? Gah... I'm getting sidetracked. Best of luck to you, I hope you avoid monumental mistakes such as that while making this.
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

Thanks folks, and I agree to what you say. I would have nothing against making it different, like more straight-forward maps.
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

Zauberer has been updated with some more sprites thanks to Stilgar. Please comment what you think.
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Ed the Bat
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Ed the Bat »

Since sprites and other resources between Blasphemer and Zauberer could be potentially interchangeable, have you thought about possibly offering up any new Zauberer assets for Blasphemer to borrow? If the two projects help one another like that, growth for one will mean growth for both. Essentially, a two-pronged approach to helping either project, since it opens up more channels for incoming resources.
Cire
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

I hope so. The sprites in Zauberer from Stilgar that's not from Blasphemer are Creative Commons 0 licensed, which basically means anyone is free to do what they want with them. The levels are just randomly generated by Oblige which I Think are copyright free, though I'm not sure about that. The Jade Wand Graphics and sound are made by Eriance who said it could be used in Projects like Freedoom or personal Projects.
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Re: Zauberer

Post by Cire »

Just a small update on this. I've added a few more blood sprites, some mushroom sprites and changed the sword and spell book sprites. I would be grateful if you would give your oppinions on the resources available as of yet. I've been trying to look for more sprites that could possibly be used of those:

http://opengameart.org/content/misc-dar ... ry-sprites

http://opengameart.org/content/dark-fan ... em-sprites

http://opengameart.org/content/haunted-forest-trees

As you can see, there are some alternative sprites available in there to, so tell me if you think any of them would fit better.
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