The First ZDoom Community Map Project is Finished!

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:31 am

giest118 wrote:'Kay then. /me goes off to play Claustrophobia

Wise choice. This discussion is utterly dumb considering that RandomLag fell for a bait explicitly aimed at him and doesn't have the courage to admit it...

If I had known his reaction would be that hostile though I wouldn't have done it.

randomlag · Post by **randomlag** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:37 am

Sure Graf, whatever you say. You can't even get the meaning of pendantic correct. Nice futile attempt at saving yet another one of your bs stories. Well, hey I was baiting YOU. What do you have to say to that? LOL, this is plainly ridiculous. [And actually that's not too far off since I never hoped that anyone here would be able to carry on a civil discussion

]

I admire the way you can say things that describe literally YOU.

My favorite one is that you can look a the source code of a nodebuilder and tell if it builds good nodes. Yeah that was really a prize post of yours. Of course you were baiting right? Heck, I could drag up a zillion more just like that by you over a year. All the same sort of silly ostentatious bs.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:48 am

randomlag wrote:My favorite one is that you can look a the source code of a nodebuilder and tell if it builds good nodes. Yeah that was really a prize post of yours.

The problem is, I never said that (because it *is* impossible.) That was just an intentional misinterpretation by you so you could continue arguing.

Just a reminder:

Graf Zahl a long time ago wrote:
§1 RandomLag always got to have the last word.
§2 RandomLag is always right
§3 When in doubt, see §2

So if you want to continue to act like an asshole, don't expect me to hold back anymore. I've finally had it with you.

In light of this I am ignoring this thread from now on before I do something stupid here.

Risen · Post by **Risen** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:50 am

By deleting things, I was referring to that which you called junk, not specifically the THINGS in the level.

Go ahead and build your 1-room biggest map ever. I'll concede that it is, in fact, the biggest map ever.

But I will not play it; and I will not care.

Post by **TheDarkArchon** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:00 am

It's ridiculous all right. But not for the reasons you say it is.

RandomLag wrote:hey I was baiting you

Graf was the first one to bait you. He posted well before you.

My favourite one is that you can look at the source code of a nodebuilder and tell if it builds good nodes.

So what? Why should that reflect poorly on him?

If you remove the stuff that has nothing to do with the level, RTC has more vertices, sidedefs and sectors

What's wrong with those things anyway. Besides, the comparison is unfair as RTC is a hub and ZDCMP is a SINGLE LEVEL!!!

You can't even get the meaning of pendantic correct

Oh, so he isn't allowed to make a mistake when talking in a language outside his native one?

'nuff said.

randomlag · Post by **randomlag** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:23 am

MMMmmm. Read my first posts and see exactly how that got turned into what it became. Did I flame anyone or did I just mention some things you guys need to consider?

I was making FUN of the claim that "I was baiting you", nothing more. Think about it

It's a ridiculous thing to post. Means absolutely nothing. Graf was not baiting me. He did what he always does. In fact, it's really funny to me that what he accuses me of describes him to a T.

NOBODY can look at the source code of a node builder and claim to be able to determine if it builds good nodes. YES he did say that in discussing some nodebuilders that he knew nothing about. There is NO misinterpretation here by me. Even said that GLBSP is just like BSP which is about the same thing as saying that apples are just like oranges, they are both round.

So that's why that reflects poorly on him. He knows that he can't (as just stated above). Seems I have to drag up that post of his now and then he'd come up with something else again. It's never enough to say he screwed up, just like the duplicate mess that is now common is never admitted.

Whether it's a HUB or not has nothing to do with this discussion. Reread the posts please.

If you use a word, then you better know what you are saying. Especially a word like "pedantic". That's not something you grab out of a bucket in everyday conversations. Clearly he knew exactly what it meant and then wanted to change the meaning of the word. He was serious. If you can't use a person's own statements, then hell I can say that too, can't I? Ridiculous way to argue.

§1 Graf always got to have the last word.
§2 Graf is always right
§3 When in doubt, see §2

Too bad that the simplest of things can't be seen. Funny thing is, this sort of stunt would never fly on DOOMWORLD. First off, everyone would agree on the level size thing and secondly it would be in HELL - hahaha.

randomlag · Post by **randomlag** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:34 am

Here's Graf's post from DW

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread. ... ight=GLBSP

I have tested all better known node builder on hundreds of levels to determine their quality. So please don't make any wild assumptions about what I know. My results were that Zennode is the one that screws up the most (but if it works it creates most likely the best result), ZDBSP has a few known problems but *overall* I experienced by far the least problems with it. DeePBSP may be nice but without any source it's hard to analyze its real quality. GLBSP simply has the problem of being based on very old code. Its main problem is that it is very slow and in relation to the speed doesn't even create particularly good nodes. The last node builder worth to mention is WARM. As long as there are no dirty 3D-effects in the level it works fine but it definitely has problems with open sectors - which, honestly, is always like a game of chance. If you are using constructs like this you have to be *extremely* careful not to be screwed by your node builder. You may be lucky or you may not but there might always be a hole you can fall into. But that's not caused by bad node builders. I call this sloppy mapping if you put your complete trust in it. What if somebody wants to use such a level with a source port that requires a node rebuild which screws up the effect?

That says that if he had the source he could tell "real quality". Meaning that by looking at the source code he can actually determine which node builder builds better nodes. This is pure BULL on all levels.

1. Having the source tells you nothing about the node quality. All it tells you is you like the style, etc. Please note that I did not misinterpret that post.

2. You don't need the source at all to tell quality. You can write a program to analyze that to some extent, although even that isn't perfect since the whole thing gets way beyond just angled lines and splits. Playing is always the best way and even then, no 1 program satisfies all conditions.

3. GLBSP is NOT based on old code. Look at BSP and then GLBSP source code. Even non-coders will not be able to see any similarity. Clearly he never looked at the source of both. Just 1 example of the sort of tripe that is posted.

4. It's extremely arrogant

5. What's the point of all this? See #1,2,3 in above post.

Isn't the internet nice

Giest118 · Post by **Giest118** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:08 pm

So, uh, why is this still being discussed?

Risen · Post by **Risen** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:10 pm

Please refrain from posting deliberate flames.

randomlag · Post by **randomlag** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:13 pm

Give it up Risen. The flames are from YOU guys not I. I just posted the facts that you can verify for yourself. Is the TRUTH that hard to read and comprehend? Apparently so.

If the lines were off in an invisible sector with no relevance to anything then you might have an argument here,

Uh, my man that's exactly the point. There is only 1 section where you can "see" the junk. And that's just a few lines. So does that mean I have an argument

Biff · Post by **Biff** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:20 pm

Hey, let's change the subject with a question about the wad!

I can't see how you guys made the megasphere jump around like that. Thought I would see a thrust script or something but no. What's the trick?

Risen · Post by **Risen** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:32 pm

You can see the lines with an automap. Your definition of visible is still rooted in your own opinion of what gameplay should contain.

Your comment about Graf Zahl at 11:37 (GMT -5) is a deliberate flame. It had no relevance to the conversation. Following it up with an entire post to detail the flame is not relevant nor in good taste.

wildweasel · Post by **wildweasel** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:35 pm

Please, no more flames. I honestly haven't seen a single discussion that involved Randomlag without seeing him arguing with somebody. Randomlag, if you are flamed, take it with a grain of salt and don't bother returning the favor because you'll only make matters worse. Ignoring people is a viable solution - so why not try it?

cyber-menace · Post by **cyber-menace** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:09 pm

randomlag wrote:Blah, blah, blah

Tis a long useless bunch of posts. Frankly I don't see how he hasn't been banned yet with that kind of idiocy... but enough of that.

Let's just get back to ZDCMP ok? One can only put up with so much nonsense in a thread.

cccp_leha · Post by **cccp_leha** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:13 pm

Biff wrote:Hey, let's change the subject with a question about the wad!

I can't see how you guys made the megasphere jump around like that. Thought I would see a thrust script or something but no. What's the trick?

I shall follow in that suit: it jumps because it's "nucking futs"!

Actually, it seems that things have a tendancy to move like that when slopes are concerned. I made 4 triangular sectors arranged in a cross shape, and their slopes pointing to the inside and place the megasphere in the middle. When the triangles are raised, the magasphere starts its hopping.