[WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

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Hellser
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by Hellser »

I'm enjoying this, it has a rather 'old but new' feel to it. Something that Plutonia and Evilution was able to achieve. I'm looking forward to playing this. Keep it up, Grymmoire!
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Tormentor667
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by Tormentor667 »

I really hope that this gets more attention. It's a brilliant concept
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printz
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by printz »

This looks pretty interesting; I don't care much for Plutonia, but I would really love to see or try a combination between the more ominous levels of Doom 2 (Monster Condo) with the more ominous maps of Doom 1 (probably E2M6 or something GSTONE from E3). Unfortunately, I don't map well when constrained like this unless I can actually start from map X, paste important parts from Y, and tune-up.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by Grymmoire »

printz wrote:I would really love to see or try a combination between the more ominous levels of Doom 2 (Monster Condo) with the more ominous maps of Doom 1 (probably E2M6 or something GSTONE from E3).
I actually have a fusion between Doom 2's Map18 and E2M6 in the works. I don't know about how ominous Map18 is really but overall the two maps fit in pretty well with each other.
printz wrote:Unfortunately, I don't map well when constrained like this unless I can actually start from map X, paste important parts from Y, and tune-up.
You're not the only one, I've gotten lots of people come by me asking to map for a project or needing some map inspiration and almost every time I bring up this project the general consensus is that it's just too constricting.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by NeuralStunner »

Vanilla features are restrictive too, but folks map for those all the time. I'm not really much of a mapper but I don't see how familiarity is bad.

There's nothing stopping anyone from adding some new material to the map. The existing maps in the project are good examples what you can accomplish.

I'm familiar enough with E1M4 and Map02, I saw a ton of new work in the fusion map.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by zdude »

I am liking the idea of this so far. The fact the monsters are even getting fusions makes this all the better! :D A fusion of Pharoah and Wolfenstein would be a rather interesting mix in my opinion.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by Grymmoire »

I've decided to release a small chunk of what's done as a demo just to show what Fusion Mapping has in store. The demo includes redux versions (mostly gameplay fixes, some visual tweaks as well) of the original 2 fusion maps and one brand new one. There's 2 versions of the demo, one for Skulltag and one for ZDoom. The ZDoom version resets health and ammo after every map to emulate the hub environment that the final version will have, Skulltag doesn't support the map properties used to do this so nothing is reset after each map.

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Blue Shadow
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by Blue Shadow »

I just finished playing through the first map and I really liked what I just played (except for one thing that annoyed me, see below).

However, there were some "potential" issues that I found (at least they looked that way to me):
  • (Screenshot #1) In the maze behind the blue key door, there is a grater? that is clipping through the ceilling.
  • (Screenshot #2) In the room where you open the exit from, there are some boxes that if you fall behind you could get stuck. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, but since jumping is disabled, it is, however.
  • (Screenshot #3) Monsters are blocked out and can't walk through (intentional?).
Spoiler: Screenshots showing the issues
The thing that annoyed me is the more-than-often monster repopulation, it just got tedious after awhile, having to fight new "waves" of monsters in the same area more than like three times or so. I know that you want to make a continuous action for the player to engage in and I agree on that, but the map seemed like it'll never end. I mean, it took me more than 30 minutes to finish it.

Regardless of that, the map is great and I enjoyed playing it and looking forward to the rest.

Note: I find the cyberpinky to be a tad fast considering when it dies near you it could splash damage you easily.
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ShadesMaster
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by ShadesMaster »

I like this pack and would like to make another map for it - glad you used a modified version of my submission btw. I'd make the exit portal more obvious tho, my fault from the original version. It's getting nixed from my Deepest Evil mod anyway because I'm retooling that into a retelling of Doom, an alpha-esque mod. Worked out for the best - and the pistol starts per map actually works for this! Although for subsequent releases, call me ShadesMaster. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/shadesthesocialite

Level 3 I tended to run out of ammo alot but otherwise love the new decorations, and I actually have a new decoration or two to use in future levels! I guess I'll use the download as the resource wad and get cracking on a surprise!
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esselfortium
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by esselfortium »

Blue Shadow wrote:The thing that annoyed me is the more-than-often monster repopulation, it just got tedious after awhile, having to fight new "waves" of monsters in the same area more than like three times or so. I know that you want to make a continuous action for the player to engage in and I agree on that, but the map seemed like it'll never end. I mean, it took me more than 30 minutes to finish it.
Monster repopulation is alright when used sparingly, but I find it much more effective to connect map areas together in such a way that monsters from one area will be able to torment the player elsewhere if he tries to ignore them, whether they're free-roaming monsters, cacodemons that fly through windows, monsters up on ledges that the player will later have to cross, etc. It avoids the annoying feeling of never really progressing that you can get when there's too much repeated monster teleport stuff going on, and allows for gameplay to change significantly based on how you're playing so you don't have to get the exact same experience every time.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by Grymmoire »

Thanks for the feedback, I'll be sure to address these issues. The first map was made quite a long time ago so the gameplay doesn't really hold up as well as the others I'll admit. I'll tone down the monster teleporting nonetheless.

For that last issue I think I made that line purposefully monster blocking so that enemies wouldn't flood into the only escape route from that area.
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printz
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by printz »

esselfortium wrote:
Blue Shadow wrote:The thing that annoyed me is the more-than-often monster repopulation, it just got tedious after awhile, having to fight new "waves" of monsters in the same area more than like three times or so. I know that you want to make a continuous action for the player to engage in and I agree on that, but the map seemed like it'll never end. I mean, it took me more than 30 minutes to finish it.
Monster repopulation is alright when used sparingly, but I find it much more effective to connect map areas together in such a way that monsters from one area will be able to torment the player elsewhere if he tries to ignore them, whether they're free-roaming monsters, cacodemons that fly through windows, monsters up on ledges that the player will later have to cross, etc.
Yeah, I love punishing the player for fleeing. It's always great when monsters are recycled and not let to oscillate on a ledge with nothing in sight.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by NeuralStunner »

Blue Shadow wrote:
  • (Screenshot #1) In the maze behind the blue key door, there is a grater? that is clipping through the ceilling.
Problem is that it's not clipping. If the map is UDMF that's a quick fix (Applying the ClipMidTex flag). I think the problem may not show up in GZDoom, because I'm not sure GL can handle non-clipped planes.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by .+:icytux:+. »

Trick to have midtextures not clip in vanilla is to have different brightness levels on each side of the midtexture.
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Re: [WIP]Fusion Mapping Take #2

Post by Grymmoire »

Due to all the custom monsters and UDMF-ness of the maps though, doing things the vanilla way isn't really necessary. I just forgot to set the flag on the texture, even though I coulda sworn I did it before.

Oh and while this thread is active and all I thought everyone would enjoy if I shared a punny list of possible fusion maps that could be put together. Some of the individual maps are already taken for other fusions but that doesn't take away from the possibilities.
Spoiler:

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