Ripping the weapons from Rage?

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Enjay
 
 
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Enjay »

I agree with Xaser. It seems weird to create a rule for RAGE weapons when no such rule has existed for other games and when a large part of what goes on in this community involves ripping games in various ways, and has done for many years.

I don't see what makes RAGE so special that it deserves such consideration. Other games have not had such a restriction placed upon them. Would it just be weapons rips? What if someone rips a sound or a texture and uses it in their WAD? What if someone rips an equally new game that isn't RAGE?

I just don't think that it really makes sense to have a moratorium on RAGE stuff simply because it... Well, I don't really know why. Because it's an id game?

Anyway, it feels like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to try and solve a problem that I'm not convinced exists. If such a rule was to be brought in, it would have to be applied fairly and consistently and, I think, be one that was generally agreed too. I can actually see such a rule becoming an unnecessary point of conflict between people posting mods and the moderators and creating extra work for people who have to police it (ie, the mods). I can also imagine posts like "I'm not posting my mod here because of teh Zdoom Forum ban on new game rips LOL!!!111one".

I don't think such a rule is needed and I don't think it would be particularly workable or practical either. I think it would always feel a bit arbitrary.

[edit] I should have mentioned that I do appreciate some of the unease surrounding the posting rips from RAGE (or any other new game popular in this community) but I really don't see it as a problem. Indeed, if we think back to when Doom3 came out, there was quite a flurry of activity around making Doom3-like weapons and ripping or emulating various Doom3 resources and styles but I don't ever recall it being a problem or their being any significant objections to it. [/edit]
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wildweasel
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by wildweasel »

Enjay wrote:I agree with Xaser. It seems weird to create a rule for RAGE weapons when no such rule has existed for other games and when a large part of what goes on in this community involves ripping games in various ways, and has done for many years.

I don't see what makes RAGE so special that it deserves such consideration. Other games have not had such a restriction placed upon them. Would it just be weapons rips? What if someone rips a sound or a texture and uses it in their WAD? What if someone rips an equally new game that isn't RAGE?

I just don't think that it really makes sense to have a moratorium on RAGE stuff simply because it... Well, I don't really know why. Because it's an id game?
Actually no, the only reason I feel RAGE rips shouldn't be posted here is simply because it's such a new game. Most of the stuff we rip here is at least a year old, and I just don't feel so good about ripping from a game that has literally been out less than a week.
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Enjay
 
 
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Enjay »

Well, in that case I can understand your reservations. I'm not sure how big the problem is though, or even if it exists.

The only obvious rule I can see resulting from this concern would be something like "you must not post mods on this forum that use rips from games less than [insert time duration here]". However, the time duration would be arbitrary - decided on what basis? Also, it would only be enforced here. If the mods were going to be made, they would still be made and they would be posted on other boards, and people would download the mods, and talk about them etc etc. It just wouldn't be acceptable to post a link to the mod here. Would that also preclude posting links to "project threads" say, on Doomworld, or to a YouTube video featuring the mod (perhaps with a URL in the video description) ?

Also, given that it hasn't been an issue in the past, is it likely to be one in the future? Do we need to tie ourselves in knots over something that, so far, has not been a problem?

Let's face it though, if a RAGE weapons mod appears, it's likely to be some screen grabbed weapons that are possibly not very well cleaned up and which many people are likely to dismiss as crappy anyway. Any decent mod is likely to take some time, if one appears at all.

And just for the record, I don't particularly want, or care about getting my hands on a RAGE mod and I don't have the game (not yet any way) so I wouldn't be doing one myself either (not that I have any great desire to either). It's just that I don't see a restriction of this type being particularly needed or practical.
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Mike12
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Mike12 »

Personally, I don't think people would care all too much if resources from the game were ripped and turned into 2D images for a game that is over 15 years old (Developers tend to be more protective of the actual models themselves). Not to mention, as Enjay said, unless they get reshaded and edited to fit in Doom better, nobody is going to really care all too much for direct model rips anyways.

However, I can see waiting a few weeks or a month or so before ripping stuff from a game being a good thing just to show respect for the developers.

You can kind of think about it like this: if you spent a lot of hard work making a Doom TC or a weapon mod with all new and original graphics, it could be a tad frustrating if you start seeing your mod resources floating around in other wads before the week even ends. If you wait a while, it shows more respect for the creator, and people will have a chance to be able to recognize where the resources originally came from before they play any other wads that use the same resources.
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chronoteeth
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by chronoteeth »

with all the probs the pc version has right now, getting the perfect rip would be hell anyways
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NeuralStunner
 
 
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by NeuralStunner »

Mike12 wrote:You can kind of think about it like this: if you spent a lot of hard work making a Doom TC or a weapon mod with all new and original graphics, it could be a tad frustrating if you start seeing your mod resources floating around in other wads before the week even ends. If you wait a while, it shows more respect for the creator, and people will have a chance to be able to recognize where the resources originally came from before they play any other wads that use the same resources.
This sums up my views on it.

Nevermind that this topic was started as a discussion, not a resource or request...
Jinal wrote:With Rage out, I'm pretty sure it's inevitable that people are start ripping the resources like the weapons even the sounds don't you think?
All I can say to this is "well duh."
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DBThanatos
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by DBThanatos »

wildweasel wrote: Ideally, yes. But you can't stop it from happening eventually.

I suppose what I could do here, though, is a Zero Tolerance Policy: any posting of resources from Rage will be removed.
What? Sorry, but that's the biggest nonsense I've read this far regarding moderation in the forum.

So, if someone takes the time, the effort and all that is implied in ripping something from the game (say, a good looking sprite conversion of the weapons), will be wasted (and yes, I can foresee the "so the developers deserve no respect for their efforts for making the game?" replies coming), or put in hold because you think we shouldnt have them here, until a certain time has passed? What is this? Seriously. If it will become a new forum rule of "you cant rip until 2 months have passed", well I can deal with that, because it'd be a well established forum rule. But a simple "I dont think is a good idea, therefore you cant do it or I'll take it down" seems extremely arbitrary here. I dont care much about the game, much less about ripping anything from it (until I buy it, process it, and discard it), but I find rather absurd to prohibit something just because is new, especially in a sub forum that is completely dedicated to post resources, which 95% are rips of other stuff anyway.

So, ripping after a month means "we paid our respects, time to butcher the thing completely free of guilt"? See the problem there? Good thing that developers of old games didnt require this "respect" time, because they certainly suffer from all our disrespect as their games are ripped byte to byte in this same forum.
wildweasel wrote:
Xaser wrote:It seems like a very unnecessary exception to make. It's just gonna tempt someone to slide down the slippery slope at some point. :(
Alright, well what do you want then?
I'd say "no arbitrary rules". Put a big "please dont touch this" sign, and see how many people will have the urge to touch it.

Once again, I dont care about it's resources, mostly because I havent cosumed the thing first, but this whole thing is simply hypocritical when you see what forum we're on.
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by wildweasel »

Alright, fuck it! You want to rip from a game that is only a week old, go right the fuck ahead.
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Major Cooke
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Major Cooke »

...If ripping from a game so early upsets people, well... They certainly won't like me for what I've done to a few other games. >.>

Disclaimer: I do not own, or possess the desire to play rage at all, at least not now.
Sodaholic
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Sodaholic »

wildweasel wrote:Alright, fuck it! You want to rip from a game that is only a week old, go right the fuck ahead.
Seems a little overly angry for such a small issue, to be honest. :|

(I know I'm being a bit of a hypocrite right now but oh well)
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Gez »

It's not so much for legal/moral/ethical reasons that I object to Rage rips myself; but just because I find the attitude behind wanting to rip stuff from the latest buzz-making game as soon as it's out pathetic.

Especially when the intent is presumably to use these rips in a sprite-based game. It's a lot of tedious work which result only in something ugly and clashing. That energy would be better spent making low-res sprites that actually blend in and fit with the engine used.
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Minigunner
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Minigunner »

Gez, I agree with you. If anything, we need Doomy rips.
Wildweasel, I'm sure that only the shitty mods would rip Rage weapons (rather crappily) this early, but oh well. It happens. The best way to discourage the ripping of recently-made games (not just Rage) is to ignore them.
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by NeuralStunner »

Sodaholic wrote:Seems a little overly angry for such a small issue, to be honest. :|
When somebody manages to object to everything you say, isn't that awful frustrating?

Maybe trying to make a policy out of it was a bit much. But that doesn't really matter now.
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by Gez »

NeuralStunner wrote:
Sodaholic wrote:Seems a little overly angry for such a small issue, to be honest. :|
When somebody manages to object to everything you say, isn't that awful frustrating?
No, I think Sodaholic is rather used to that by now.
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Re: Ripping the weapons from Rage?

Post by wildweasel »

I say let's just drop the issue and let the thread die.

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