Doom 2 Intermission Map (REVIVED)

[wildweasel]

What Twinkieman said, though I have a few things to add.

Any project can have a ton of misfires. I was initially going to tell you something like "you don't exactly have a lot of presence around here" but that would be extremely rude of me, and I'm not sure why I'm even mentioning it here. The fact is, it doesn't really matter how much pull you have as a community member, how long you've been here, how many posts or projects you've made. Look at HPack; they've been in development since...what, 2005? Still not finished, despite Tormentor constantly trying to recruit people for the team.

It's not exactly about a lack of interest, either. Maybe there's someone here that could have helped you, someone who has exactly the kind of experience you need to pull off whatever you're trying to do with your project. That "someone" might have simply passed over your help thread in Editing because they had no idea what you needed. "Decorate/ACS/Dehacked" doesn't really narrow it down at all, since that literally encompasses somewhere around 90% of the possible things ZDoom could do, that people have varying amounts of experience doing. Nobody would know without PM'ing you, and frankly, a lot of folks around here just can't be bothered to go out of their way to ask what you need.

There are a couple of approaches you could take about this. Someone in our IRC channel suggested that you could look for users you feel are trustworthy and contact them directly via private message. Though, if you ask me, the real problem is that you just plain haven't waited long enough for help. Though it might look it at times, we don't live on the forums. A lot of our regular users don't browse on weekends, or at night, and then there's those pesky time zones and international considerations to take into account. I'd wager that if your "someone" hasn't contacted you, maybe they just plain haven't seen the thread yet.

So, really, don't feel like you've failed, because you haven't. Every time I see you post progress in this thread, I see almost universal applause. You've got a good thing going here and it's a shame that you've decided to abandon it. But in the end, that's your choice, and if you've decided that this project just isn't worth pursuing anymore, I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do in the future.

[Scripten]

It's your own prerogative to stop working on a project, but really, it seems like if you're not making something for the joy of creating it, you may want to take a look at your priorities. Just trying to impress the community or certain people is all well and good, but running off with your toys when you feel like you're not being praised enough does come off a wee bit childish. (No offense intended, of course, just making note of how it looks from the outside.) There's a lot of projects to keep an eye on, so without something tangible to play with, it's understandable that people will leave some criticism/praise/what-have-you and move on while waiting so you have time to finish up some more stuff.

Either way, is a shame to see the project go.

[Triple S]

Pretty sure I know what set him off. He* asked for assistance but specified he wanted to keep what he needed the help for secret. Apparently rather than PM him asking about it or even just leaving it alone, he got a few posts mocking him like he was some nobody who just signed up and never contributed but suddenly wanted to recruit people for some project that he expected people to make entirely for him. And when he finally divulged what he wanted to do he was basically told his idea was unoriginal, done before, and didn't deserve to be kept secret (note that the person who said this made some heavy assumptions and made a pretty dickish post).

It's kind of disturbing, really, that people would rather take more time to basically ridicule someone than just send a PM and at least play along for a bit. Is your time on this forum really that sacred? Are you that important that you can't at least say "I might be able to help but you need to PM me the details first" before shitting all over someone? Yeah, being ambiguous about it in a public post probably wasn't the best way to get attention, and I like weasel's suggestion of contacting known users directly... but still. For fuck's sake, we're not Reddit.


This all being said, it's seriously not worth letting a few sarcastic and biting forum posts stop you from finishing up something you've spent years working on. Like, it's literally not worth it, because you're letting what a few random people on the internet said nullify all the time you've spent on this project. You made this long post talking about how hard you've worked on it, about the hours sunk into this that you're not going to get back. You have a whole thread of people who couldn't wait to see it done and enjoy it, and that's just the people who actually bother to post here every now and then. Don't let a rough encounter like that request for help take the evidence of those hours, the appreciation of those people, and throw it all away. It's up to you, not them, and I'm sure we'd all rather you didn't side with something that's caused you turmoil.


*using male pronouns because a) internet and b) English has shitty gender-neutral pronoun support


EDIT:

Just trying to impress the community or certain people is all well and good, but running off with your toys when you feel like you're not being praised enough does come off a wee bit childish.

I think it's less that there's "not enough praise" and more that, well... people like to be recognized for their hard work. If I do something great and it goes mostly unnoticed, it does hurt a little. It's not a big deal once or twice, but if it keeps happening it really adds up. And sometimes when it adds up, it starts to mask the praise I do get. That praise isn't meaningless; far from it. But the mind tends to focus on what's missing, especially for some people.

[wildweasel]

It's kind of disturbing, really, that people would rather take more time to basically ridicule someone than just send a PM and at least play along for a bit. Is your time on this forum really that sacred? Are you that important that you can't at least say "I might be able to help but you need to PM me the details first" before shitting all over someone? Yeah, being ambiguous about it in a public post probably wasn't the best way to get attention, and I like weasel's suggestion of contacting known users directly... but still. For fuck's sake, we're not Reddit.

Yeah, honestly, though it's not quite as bad as I've seen some people get on here, that kind of behavior really isn't okay. The fact that it originated from a long-time user and a fellow moderator doesn't really excuse it. It's not something I'd increment the warn-counter about, personally, but I feel that maybe we should not be so quick to tease people if we don't know how they'd respond to it.

[torridgristle]

People are more likely to respond when they actually know what you want, partly because otherwise they have no idea if they could even help. Why should they spend their time contacting you to see if they're capable of doing work for you when you could just say what you want and expedite the process? You're only hurting yourself and wasting the time of others when you beat around the bush. If you're worried about coming off as rude, start with "Would anyone mind".

In summation, the faster you come up with a useful request, the sooner you get a useful response.

[Blue Shadow]

Agreed. I've seen the thread in Editing, and I was more than willing to help, but I had no idea if I was qualified to help in what he needed, to begin with, since I didn't know exactly what he was asking for, and I didn't want to waste both of our times by contacting him and getting his hopes high for no reason, only to know that what he needed help with is something I couldn't do. I have a decent knowledge in ACS and DECORATE (which are what one mostly needs to mod for ZDoom), but still, I'd rather know what I'm getting myself into, beforehand.

And when the thing turned out to be intermission screens-related, I didn't say anything, because well, I happen to have no knowledge in that aspect...

[Onslaught Six]

Man, and I just saw this the other day and thought it looked awesome, and couldn't wait for it.

Don't let people giving you shit stop you.

[Valherran]

Sorry to have read all of that misfortune, though what others have said above on this page, simply put: don't let the trolls win.

[Abba Zabba]

If you are reading this Skunk, don't let the bad apples spoil the good apples you took so long to pick. I've been watching this project for awhile, and always loved seeing it update with all the interesting changes and additions you did. While I more than likely couldn't have been much help to what you needed, understand that while some people like me enjoy the idea of asking for some help on something secretive, that it confuses others and prevents them from really putting their help out there without some clear points on what's being asked.

I hope you change your mind and come back, but ultimately the choice lies with you.

[Enjay]

I'm really sad to see this getting canned. It was a very interesting project and quite different to other projects. It was creating some interest in a relatively unexplored area of Doom modding. I would really urge you to reconsider but your decision is your decision which ever way you go.

And on an entirely unrelated note...

I think the community has been going down hill ever since Assmaster died.

Rock and roll's been going down hill ever since Buddy Holly died.

Intentionally similar phrasing or just coincidence?

[Skunk]

Intentionally similar phrasing or just coincidence?

I would be lying if I said I wasn't inspired by it. But I meant what I said. Since Jason passed I've just been less and less involved with the community personally. I miss the hell out of him.

Well thanks for all the kind words I suppose. Triple S nailed exactly why I was upset more than anything else. And yeah, maybe I shouldn't have let those things get to me, but when that one guy basically just revealed the secret to everyone and got really mean about it...

To those who read it, now you understand why I'm trying to keep this a secret, yeah?

no because an intermission screen isn't exactly secret material, nor is your idea
putting other games in doom has been done before, and even for your exact example (see wolf3d tc)

I remember when we all used to work together. What happened to those days? Now it seems like everyone is just out for themselves.

"no one helped me with my requests that specify almost nothing, therefore no one helps each other anymore"

That is what set me off.
I had a pretty terrible day today at work today but I happen to have had the thread open in another tab I forgot to close. So I went ahead and refreshed and saw everything and... while I appreciate the support I dunno if I'm going to change my mind. I did click over to Photoshop and saw the latter half of the hell levels map still open and it just sort of irked me that, ya know, I told you what was going to happen already. Even if I wanted to continue the project I just feel like it has no more mysteries now. I guess I sort of feel like how we felt when KDIZD got leaked that first time.

Maybe I will finish it but no matter what I think I'm going to take a break anyway. This whole thing... I guess it just really bummed me out.

[TheMightyHeracross]

It's not something I'd increment the warn-counter about

I would! Here, Skunk is trying to get help for something he wants to do for his project, and Ijon strolls along and outright bashes his idea and puts him down:

no because an intermission screen isn't exactly secret material, nor is your idea
putting other games in doom has been done before, and even for your exact example (see wolf3d tc)
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"no one helped me with my requests that specify almost nothing, therefore no one helps each other anymore"

And even still, the project itself is and original idea. Not only that, he actually did explain what he wanted to do in the spoiler, so his second sentence was wrong.

Skunk, I don't know whether you want to continue this, but you do not want to be mocked anymore, or that you just don't want to do it, but if you do actually want to do it, do it. Don't let some posts from a couple of guys put you down.

[wildweasel]

I would! Here, Skunk is trying to get help for something he wants to do for his project, and Ijon strolls along and outright bashes his idea and puts him down:

Okay, I actually did warn Ijon about that, but I was referring to Kate and BlazingPhoenix's posts, which actually got reported.

[0bsidian]

I offered to help.

[torridgristle]

I would! Here, Skunk is trying to get help for something he wants to do for his project, and Ijon strolls along and outright bashes his idea and puts him down:

Ijon "bashed" how Skunk handled asking for help by pointing out that it's not worth keeping secret (especially when it discourages people from helping) since it's not a new idea and "put him down" for giving up and saying that the community doesn't want to help each other and that it's dead after a few days of not telling anyone what he wanted with his incredibly vague post.