Satanic Redux V10.8 Released! 5/31/12

[ArielBoss]

To me the link is dead

[iVoid]

For your convenience, here is the link posted on the "Mod download broken" thread:

satanicredux-v108.zip

Thank wolfman for this. And thanks to him from my part too

[ArielBoss]

For your convenience, here is the link posted on the "Mod download broken" thread:

satanicredux-v108.zip

Thank wolfman for this. And thanks to him from my part too

Oh...sorry, i dont have seen this.And thx

[Valherran]

I have been playing this alot lately, there is a few things that I want to address here...

1. Defiler Shotgun - Why can you not use the alt-fire when there are 4-7 shells loaded in the gun? It only costs 4 shells to use, but requires it to be fully loaded, which doesn't make sense. It would be good to have a small cast bar to charge up for 2 seconds to initiate the speed reload to avoid unnecessary usage of mana when doing it manually. Also would be good to have a new effect be put in for it's melee attack, you wouldn't think it reflected projectiles by waving a gun at them. Maybe a wave of magical force be thrown in front of you when you hold the shotgun in front of you during the attack, that would look way better. Knock back could use more power to it too since the cool down is so long.

2. Kindred Genesis - I see no reason to consume this book in your inventory, it is more valuable as a weapon for healing purposes. Maybe if there was an incentive to consuming it, like giving the player +10 max HP and Mana, or fully restoring health and mana on use? 50 HP on consumption is not worth it.

3. Leech Sword - A sword that steals life at the cost of mana is pointless in a survival type MOD such as this. This weapon would be better suited as a mana stealing weapon that DOESN'T cost life to use. It is really risky and/or dangerous to get into melee combat in this MOD, using the shotgun point blank is pushing it as it is.

4. Tainted Cross - Why is this weapon only available in Necrorunner mode? This thing would have made life simpler in a lot of levels...

5. Magic Shields - The draining of the shields over time is really one sided in this MOD. Mana pickups aren't very plentiful, and to keep a decent amount of armor up in times of need often leaves you mana hungry. It would be better if they did not deplete.

6. Necro Barrier - The armor this provides would ideally better if it was a separate set of armor that helps negate 30% damage from non-magical attacks, such as gun fire and melee attacks. Also would be better if it did not deplete.

7. Blood Magic - Why does the alt-fire bounce off of walls and try to hit you 4x harder and faster than what you threw it for initially? This weapon would be better if it refunded some or all of the mana back if you kill a target to steal HP, and NOT hurt you on return.

Bug - If you consume/use the Book of Shadows, it can never be found again unless you start a new game.

[Crudux Cruo]

Its a shame this is no longer being developed i really liked the way this mod was going.

[iVoid]

It isn't? :O That really sucks! It has incredible potential!... I hope the author reconsiders...

[iVoid]

Like I said before I find this mod superb, but here's what I think could be done to improve it:

I second what Valherran said about consuming the kindred genesis, it is not worth it, I like his idea for fixing it. And I also agree that being able to use the defiler's alt-fire whenever we have enough ammo loaded would be a good idea, as it stands right now the player ends up using it extremely rarely. I think it should be possible to reload the defiler as fast as possible without consuming mana just by quickly tapping the reload button, currently when we don't want to use mana we're forced to reload very slowly because if the reload button is pressed too fast it starts consuming mana.

Generally speaking I also find that fighting in close range to the monsters is a lot harder compared to the original doom, so I think it could be a good idea to make shields more effective the closer the attacking enemy is to you. Not sure if this is possible or too hard to code...

As for the way the blood magic's alt-fire works, it really is a bit strange that it hits you back xP I imagine the original intent was just to have it has an effect, like the life force of the enemies being sucked back into you. But that attack is a little OP already so I guess this is a good downside to it... It could be done differently perhaps, by tweaking it and adjusting the balance for the other weapons, but I don't think it is worth the work right now, it works pretty well as it stands, maybe on a later stage this could be looked into.

The noir palette also has the downside that it gets impossible to make out the difference between harmless water and acid. Having a slight smoke-like effect above the acid that is kept very low on the ground to not block visibility could be a good solution to this. Strong acids usually release a little "smoke" so it makes sense.

The staff of suffering's primary attack effects also feel a little "off"... They're too much like lasers which doesn't make much sense with the sorcery theme... They also don't feel that powerful for the damage they deal. If the laser-like effect was replaced by a lightning together with a thunder sound, I think it would not only look much better but also do justice to the weapon's power!

Bugs:
-When you possess a monster generally you can't jump, but your character (your body) does jump.
-This one is already known, but the fact that the mana ritual with blood magic doesn't always work on corpses can make it frustrating at times, fixing this bug should be the highest priority IMO. The worst part is that it also affects the staff of suffering when you try to use the alt-fire to ressurect corpses, which results in losing health for nothing. I think that until this bug is fixed it could be a good idea to make the staff of suffering only consume health if there is a sucessful ressurection.
-The blood magic alt-fire seems to always go a little bellow the crosshair, which makes aiming at enemies on higher ledges very hard if you don't use autoaim (I never use it) and forcing you to compensate a bit.
-The necroshroud protects from a lot of monsters, they don't see you and stop attacking, but it doesn't with many others. For example against revenants it is useless, they keep firing like you did nothing, and pinkies also keep attacking you just the same. Not sure if this is intended behavior.

[Valherran]

10.8 is probably going to be the last version, barring unforseen things; most every bug that I can fix has been fixed, and I'm pretty much out of ideas. One of the things I may do for 10.8 is customized crosshairs for each weapon, thanks to a sweet pack of crosshairs I found. But I'd like to get people's opinions on it first; I've never really seen discussion about custom crosshairs or crosshairs period for that matter, and thus I don't really have a feel for what people think of 'em. If I do implement it, and you happen to be someone who doesn't like the idea, don't worry; I've already got some code worked up so that you'll be able to toggle these per-weapon crosshairs on and off, thus allowing you to have any crosshair (or no crosshair at all) selected, and each weapon will not override your choice. And of course setting crosshairforce to 1 in the console will work as well.

Ah, I didn't read that part, I guess you were right doomer1.

I got plenty of ideas for you if you want to hear them. But if you feel you are complete with it, you can always start polishing the MOD, such as enhancing weapon animations, sprites, add more effects etc.

[ArielBoss]

It's a shame the same, I hope he reconsiders, this project is very good and has an awesome future. I hope it's not another good project dies

[amv2k9]

I've been considering picking up this again, due to my general fed-up-ness with Strife modding. With the knowledge I've gained since the last release, some things are certainly fixable.

1. Defiler Shotgun - Why can you not use the alt-fire when there are 4-7 shells loaded in the gun? It only costs 4 shells to use, but requires it to be fully loaded, which doesn't make sense. It would be good to have a small cast bar to charge up for 2 seconds to initiate the speed reload to avoid unnecessary usage of mana when doing it manually. Also would be good to have a new effect be put in for it's melee attack, you wouldn't think it reflected projectiles by waving a gun at them. Maybe a wave of magical force be thrown in front of you when you hold the shotgun in front of you during the attack, that would look way better. Knock back could use more power to it too since the cool down is so long.

The "four shells consumed, but needs eight" thing may be a glitch; been so long since I did anything with this. The other points sound like good ones too.

2. Kindred Genesis - I see no reason to consume this book in your inventory, it is more valuable as a weapon for healing purposes. Maybe if there was an incentive to consuming it, like giving the player +10 max HP and Mana, or fully restoring health and mana on use? 50 HP on consumption is not worth it.

I'm thinking maybe a "brings you to 100 HP" effect might be good for usage from inventory; gets you more health when you direly need it, but then you forsake the ability for a while to put yourself over 100.

3. Leech Sword - A sword that steals life at the cost of mana is pointless in a survival type MOD such as this. This weapon would be better suited as a mana stealing weapon that DOESN'T cost life to use. It is really risky and/or dangerous to get into melee combat in this MOD, using the shotgun point blank is pushing it as it is.
5. Magic Shields - The draining of the shields over time is really one sided in this MOD. Mana pickups aren't very plentiful, and to keep a decent amount of armor up in times of need often leaves you mana hungry. It would be better if they did not deplete.
6. Necro Barrier - The armor this provides would ideally better if it was a separate set of armor that helps negate 30% damage from non-magical attacks, such as gun fire and melee attacks. Also would be better if it did not deplete.

I'll give these a try.

4. Tainted Cross - Why is this weapon only available in Necrorunner mode? This thing would have made life simpler in a lot of levels...

Necrorunner was intended to be more classic-Doomy in its weapon loadout, to better work in some levels.

7. Blood Magic - Why does the alt-fire bounce off of walls and try to hit you 4x harder and faster than what you threw it for initially? This weapon would be better if it refunded some or all of the mana back if you kill a target to steal HP, and NOT hurt you on return.

The bounceback was present in the original Satanic, and I felt omitting it was too drastic. Without it, I'm kinda concerned the attack becomes too "cheap"; its a fairly-powerful, fast-moving projectile with minimal ammo cost, and thus without some kind of risk/reward dynamic, its rather open to abuse.

Bug - If you consume/use the Book of Shadows, it can never be found again unless you start a new game.

Well. That's definitely not supposed to happen. Lemme look into it.

[amv2k9]

Generally speaking I also find that fighting in close range to the monsters is a lot harder compared to the original doom, so I think it could be a good idea to make shields more effective the closer the attacking enemy is to you. Not sure if this is possible or too hard to code...

If my suggestion for a damagetype extension to Armor.SavePercent is added, this would be a snap.

The noir palette also has the downside that it gets impossible to make out the difference between harmless water and acid. Having a slight smoke-like effect above the acid that is kept very low on the ground to not block visibility could be a good solution to this. Strong acids usually release a little "smoke" so it makes sense.

This is something... I can't really do anything about :/ Adding actors to a map above hazardous liquids is a map-side thing; can't really be done in mods. I can change the texture used to something better highlighted in the noir pallette, but then there's the fact that some modders like to be a bit dickish and use water textures for hazardous areas, so I can't go replacing all of them...

The staff of suffering's primary attack effects also feel a little "off"... They're too much like lasers which doesn't make much sense with the sorcery theme... They also don't feel that powerful for the damage they deal. If the laser-like effect was replaced by a lightning together with a thunder sound, I think it would not only look much better but also do justice to the weapon's power!

I'll have to mess around with the railgun action functions and see if I can get something more supernatural.

Bugs:
-When you possess a monster generally you can't jump, but your character (your body) does jump.

This is due to Satanic's implementation of posession which is not based on standard morphing. It may be fixable, it may not.

-This one is already known, but the fact that the mana ritual with blood magic doesn't always work on corpses can make it frustrating at times, fixing this bug should be the highest priority IMO. The worst part is that it also affects the staff of suffering when you try to use the alt-fire to ressurect corpses, which results in losing health for nothing. I think that until this bug is fixed it could be a good idea to make the staff of suffering only consume health if there is a sucessful ressurection.

My old nemesis, the Mana Ritual's selective resurrecting of monsters. This might be fixable with A_RadiusGive. The current method involves actual Archvile-esque resurrection, and it has never been consistent.

-The blood magic alt-fire seems to always go a little bellow the crosshair, which makes aiming at enemies on higher ledges very hard if you don't use autoaim (I never use it) and forcing you to compensate a bit.

This is no prob to fix. Strange I never really noticed it...

-The necroshroud protects from a lot of monsters, they don't see you and stop attacking, but it doesn't with many others. For example against revenants it is useless, they keep firing like you did nothing, and pinkies also keep attacking you just the same. Not sure if this is intended behavior.

Spectres and other invisible monsters, as well as bosses, should still be able to see you, but not revvies and pinkies. I'll get on to fixing this.

[Valherran]

I'm thinking maybe a "brings you to 100 HP" effect might be good for usage from inventory; gets you more health when you direly need it, but then you forsake the ability for a while to put yourself over 100.

That still isn't worth it, either 1 of my suggestions for it would probably be the best way to go.

The bounceback was present in the original Satanic, and I felt omitting it was too drastic. Without it, I'm kinda concerned the attack becomes too "cheap"; its a fairly-powerful, fast-moving projectile with minimal ammo cost, and thus without some kind of risk/reward dynamic, its rather open to abuse.

I am all for toning it down, even if it means fixing it so that it doesn't try to kill you. I used this thing a bunch of times, and it literally TRIES to kill you, bounces right back into your face at a faster speed. Only way to avoid it is by ditching behind a wall before it comes back... Actually, now that I think about it, this weapon would make more sense if you killed or damaged the target and it gave a small percentage of the HP back on return, at the cost of mana. Would be good to have when you don't have the Kindred Genesis yet, that is, if you decide to nerf it.

Another thing I noticed was that when you perform the mana ritual on corpses in tight spaces, it won't work because they are too close to the walls.

2 small requests:

Please remove that combo system on the sword, it just makes it harder to use and it does not do this MOD justice to have it on there.

Please alter the bounce of the human heads when thrown, they often like to go everywhere except where you throw them. Been hit by own heads often due to them bouncing around corners and winding up coming back to me.

[HexaDoken]

Kindred genesis 50 HP on consumption IS worth it, it has saved my life countless times and whatnot.

If you are hit by the bounceback, that means you were either sleeping, your dodge skills suck really bad, or you were using it in close quarters, which is pretty much the domain of your shotgun. I was never hit by the bounceback with exception of times when I was busy contemplating life instead of paying attention to the combat.

And when you are contemplating life instead of paying attention to the combat, you typically die either way.

Remember that if the noir palette is giving you problems, you can remove it by opening the .pk3 with any zip editor and deleting Satanic_NoirPalette.wad.

The link in the first post probably should be updated now that the OP is around here.

[Valherran]

Kindred genesis 50 HP on consumption IS worth it, it has saved my life countless times and whatnot.

If you are hit by the bounceback, that means you were either sleeping, your dodge skills suck really bad, or you were using it in close quarters, which is pretty much the domain of your shotgun. I was never hit by the bounceback with exception of times when I was busy contemplating life instead of paying attention to the combat.

And when you are contemplating life instead of paying attention to the combat, you typically die either way.

Remember that if the noir palette is giving you problems, you can remove it by opening the .pk3 with any zip editor and deleting Satanic_NoirPalette.wad.

The link in the first post probably should be updated now that the OP is around here.

This post was kind of unnecessary...

[HexaDoken]

I am defending the balance of kindred genesis consumption thingie and the bounceback, while also telling users that they can remove noir palette if it troubles them. And also suggesting to replace the download link with a working one, but that's just kind of a P.S.

I personally do not see anything wrong with that. If you do, tell.