[WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

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esselfortium
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by esselfortium »

NiGHTMARE wrote:I personally consider episode 3 to be the weakest episode. Sure, E4M3 and E4M4 might be rather poor, but I consider them both to be superior to E3M4 and E3M6; those two maps just seem incredibly amateurish, more like the sort of fan-made .wads that were being released back in the mid '90s than official levels.
Stylistically E3M6 is questionable, perhaps (FIREBLU...), but it's one of the most historically important levels in Doom: it was the first ever "sandbox" map, a style that was revisited in much of Doom 2's second episode.

I somewhat like E3M4 as well; the layout is designed akin to exploring an ancient temple a la Indiana Jones.
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Ghastly
... in rememberance ...
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Ghastly »

esselfortium wrote:Stylistically E3M6 is questionable, perhaps (FIREBLU...), but it's one of the most historically important levels in Doom: it was the first ever "sandbox" map, a style that was revisited in much of Doom 2's second episode.
I still loved that map's layout. The ability to tackle the map in almost any order with several optional areas was quite fun. :P
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printz
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by printz »

NiGHTMARE wrote:E3M3 because it clearly doesn't belong in the episode (we've left Deimos behind, so why is there another tech base?).
To me, E3M3 either looks like a palace or like an alien techbase and is rather chaotic (compare to E2M5 or E2M6 which are quite sterile and human-familiar room-door-room layout). It doesn't make me think of Deimos, Phobos or UAC. There are too many strange constructions there...
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ledillman
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by ledillman »

well its really bad that NMN isnt working on doom maps, or at least, i think that i dont know if that's true.
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Wargasm92
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Wargasm92 »

Judging from the screenshots, this looks great!

But, it probably won't be a recognisable experience of playing the original episode 2, as I don't remember sh*t about The Shores of Hell. I think I remember one part where you're in a large canyon (lots of the glowing blue fire with cracks in it) and there were boatloads of Cacodemons chasing me around.

So yeah, looks great! Keep up the good work.

P.S. I am technically available as a long-term mapper for this project; the technically is because I would also have to allocate some time to work on my own project (posted here, check out Unnamed.wad (4-Episode Doom Wad) :) ). But otherwise, if you want me to make a trial map to show my architecture for you, just give me a theme (tekbase, hell outpost in the jungle, dark citadel ruled by a cyberdemon [probably not that one :)] etc etc) and I'll give it a shot.
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Z86
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Z86 »

Even if Doom 2 wasn't split in episode so literally, it kind of is. At least you can say that each story screen separates an "episode".
Well then we'll have weird episode lengths: Map1-6 (6 maps), Map7-11 (5 maps), Map12-20 (8 maps), Map21-30 (9 maps). Not to mention 12-20 part has the largest maps on average. I usually considered the "sky change" as the "episode" of Doom 2 (it coincides with the second and third text screen), that'd mean 11 (although usually quite small) maps for D2E1, 8 (large) for E2 and 9 (varied size) for E3. Not that it's realistic to expect these to be made in KDiZD quality in this lifetime...
NiGHTMARE wrote: Both E3M3 and E3M8 seem like ID were running out of time for a deadline or something. E3M3 because it clearly doesn't belong in the episode (we've left Deimos behind, so why is there another tech base?) and there should have been a hellish map in its place; E3M8 because it seems like something that was churned out in less than 10 minutes.

Going back to episode 4, E4M8 is my favourite boss level, and E4M9 my favourite secret level. I love E4M5 - E4M7, too.
Well E3M3 was originally intended for E1 (in doom aplhas), probably they just added some hellish parts and transferred it to E3. I'm kind of OK with that (SLAD can be some green brick, WOOD and SKIN/Hell textures are absolutely ok, METAL is fine, CEMENT is... well... it could have been better)

What i hated are the bonus levels for E2 and E3.
E2: two frigging rooms. It's called the Fortress of Mystery because it's a mystery why there's no fortress there.
E3: it's a slightly extended M1 with an absolutely out of place GREY wall ending.

E4 is allright. I considered it to be more of an expansion of random maps than a cohesive episode like E1-E3, although there are some awesome levels (E4M5, E4M6, E4M8), and well, it has the best secret level, even though it reminds me of an E1 map.


By the way, i was long thinking of a rehashing of the original trilogy (i had the idea way back to populate Doom1 with Doom2 monsters), and now i'm kind of inspired to do something like a KDiZD "light" for all 3 classic episodes, adding some detail, making some rooms to make more sense, extra gameplay, with the goal of not deviating much from the original besides texture changes (with keeping the original color scheme in mind), and adding some ZDoom/GZDoom eye candies. Does it sound like a good idea, or is it overdone?
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Alterworldruler
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Alterworldruler »

ledillman wrote:well its really bad that NMN isnt working on doom maps, or at least, i think that i dont know if that's true.
It is correct, plus I should mention he's absolutely unreachable either, man's long gone to say and no one knows if he will come back ever.
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ledillman
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by ledillman »

Alterworldruler wrote:
ledillman wrote:well its really bad that NMN isnt working on doom maps, or at least, i think that i dont know if that's true.
It is correct, plus I should mention he's absolutely unreachable either, man's long gone to say and no one knows if he will come back ever.
damn, well, screenshots looks great, but it could be great to see a screenshot of E2M1 entry (or first view)

Good luck! :)
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MidnightTH
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by MidnightTH »

Whoops! i made a Double post! Please delete!
Last edited by MidnightTH on Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MidnightTH
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by MidnightTH »

Not so bad, I liked KDIZD.
I'd LOVE to see Lockers in Z2M7 In a New area Connected to the Storage room ( locker room ).
And heres something i'd like to see in Z2M4, Fleshy room with a Machine gun that triggers a Screamer. ( E2M4 Got scarier bruddah )
Heres the weapons that i'd like to see in TSOZD

Laser rifle, Rifle ( Weaker than in KDIZD ), Machine gun, Quad shotgun and Flamethrower
Blue Shadow
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Blue Shadow »

@MidnightTH: Please don't double-post unless it's something important that could be shadowed by the first post and slip unnoticed. Use the Edit button instead.
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wildweasel
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by wildweasel »

Blue Shadow wrote:@MidnightTH: Please don't double-post unless it's something important that could be shadowed by the first post and slip unnoticed. Use the Edit button instead.
Both those posts were stuck in approval queue until now. You can't really edit posts that aren't visible yet.
Blue Shadow
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Blue Shadow »

wildweasel wrote:
Blue Shadow wrote:@MidnightTH: Please don't double-post unless it's something important that could be shadowed by the first post and slip unnoticed. Use the Edit button instead.
Both those posts were stuck in approval queue until now. You can't really edit posts that aren't visible yet.
Ahh... I see, I didn't know that. My bad.
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Quadruplesword
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Quadruplesword »

I'm hoping for TSoZD, you give E2M8 a total work over and make it more climactic. Always seemed kinda weird to me in the original that there was very little to the Tower of Babel other than the cyberdemon fight. Maybe have the player work their way up the tower, fighting any and all sorts of hellish creatures that stand in the way, and have a mini-boss fight before the cyberdemon to make it seem more climactic, like what you did with Z1M8 (in my opinion the best map of KDiZD). And also, if you have any plans to remake Episode 3, after defeating the cyberdemon, you should show a scene of the doomguy rapelling down to Hell's surface. I really enjoyed KDiZD, so I'm hoping you do just as good of a job with TSoZD.

(Oh, and if you plan to have a mini-boss fight before the cyberdemon, could you give me some medical supplies after defeating the mini-boss so I don't have to fight the cyberdemon on dangerously low health and armor?)
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Viscra Maelstrom
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Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom

Post by Viscra Maelstrom »

I really hope that the final boss in TSoZD will get a better overhaul and won't turn out as anti-climatic as KDiZD's final boss. That boss was just awful.

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