(WIP) The Great War: 1916 [Files Released- Scavenge Away!]

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XutaWoo
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by XutaWoo »

bwc153 wrote:-Allow NPCs to crouch
Similar to in that GZDoom mod with the inca soldiers, and their ability to crouch, this would make for some interesting fights between the trenches. Although, this would be better for 'dedicated defensive' NPCs (NPCs that are supposed to stay in a trench to defend it)
Please note that if you're talking about Enjay's...whatsitsface, the enemies never actually changed their height; it was purely visual.
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LilWhiteMouse
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by LilWhiteMouse »

If you feel like spicing things up, add a German railgun behind their side to compensate for the lack of tanks. Also, considered using gas attacks?
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Dr. Crushcup
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Dr. Crushcup »

bwc153 wrote:I guess I'll go first then... :P

I like your 3rd Idea as well, but If demand for the others is high enough perhaps you could make an option to have different sort of situations.


Some key points I'd like to see with the 'gameplay', and reasons so.
- No jetfighter legs
Obviously running around at 90 MPH would ruin the mood of a WW1 mod, allowing you to sorta just hop in the enemy trench and start beating them with a stick (trench club).

- Make doomguy easier to kill
Goes off of the above too, this is based off of the fact that you are using Zombies for placeholders and that the new NPCs will not be tougher.

- No perfectly accurate weapons
Sorta gets repetitive if all you do is sit there and snipe, and snipe, and snipe. Perhaps make a Scoped rifle for people who want to do that, but don't make your typical Gewehr98 or Lee-Enfield have perfect accuracy, please.

-Allow NPCs to crouch
Similar to in that GZDoom mod with the inca soldiers, and their ability to crouch, this would make for some interesting fights between the trenches. Although, this would be better for 'dedicated defensive' NPCs (NPCs that are supposed to stay in a trench to defend it)
Funny enough, all of the things you mentioned were things I've considered/already added in :)
Doomguy gets killed in 2/3 shots at most, speed is reduced heavily, and the weapons are far from accurate.
Even the dedicated defensive soldiers were just implemented (it's supposed to choose randomly upon spawning what type of soldier they are.) They still can't crouch, though, and that's gonna be quite a trick to implement.

Ben2k9 wrote:a couple of things about WW1:

Tanks were a lot different back then, they were actaully invented in WW1 by the British, and they could only reach 4(!)mph, they were largely inneffective in firepower but it was the sheer size of them that scared the germans, they had never seen anything like it in their lives! take a look:

the Germans did build one of their own but it was a total failure, far too big and cumbersome, but if you want to still include them then by all means:

although, they did capture a few British Mk4 tanks

Also, you may want a bit of 'fog of war' going on there, as there was a LOT of artillery and general shooting, battlefields were pretty much fought blindly, shooting into nothingness hoping to hit something:
Pretty cool selection of photos :)
Yeah, I've done my share of research on the war, and I'm well aware of the limitations of the Mark IV and the A7V (though oddly, as much of a 'failure' as it may have been, the A7V technically won the first three-on-three tank battle; the only Mk. IV that wasn't critically damaged in the first seconds of the battle was immobilized by mortars as it limped home, while the one A7V not plagued with troubles survived the battle relatively unscathed by comparison.) Hence I've decided that tanks are almost certainly going to be a no-show in the game.

The fog of war was exactly what I was thinking of. I have the scripting for the A_Fade effect all done, but currently commented out so I can see what I'm doing while I develop and test my map :D

Tragos wrote:I would add in timed charges for both sides. Meaning after a certain amount of time passes, the British side spawns more troops and rushes the German position.
(Cue the epic music and screams of battle at this point.) "RAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!"

This would give each side a chance to gain a new position on the map, thus moving up their spawn locations. Also I would think about adding tickets to each side and have it affect morale once it gets low enough. If the Germans holding position mow down the British fast enough they can cause their morale to break, thus causing most of the NPC soldiers on the British side to either flee, stop and take cover where they are, or simply throw their hands up attempting to surrender. As we know, Germans rarely took prisoners. :twisted:
Very good suggestion! I wanted the soldiers to have a state which sets their frightened flag, and that sounds like a perfect way to send them into that state! :D

LilWhiteMouse wrote:If you feel like spicing things up, add a German railgun behind their side to compensate for the lack of tanks. Also, considered using gas attacks?
Maybe, though the artillery already does quite a good job at wiping out any troops who can't get to their dugouts in time (or are charging across No Man's Land) :twisted:
I have indeed considered gas attacks, though the one thing I'm worried about there is the gas effect itself. Is there a proper haze effect, or do I only have A_SetFade to work with?
Edit: herp, I'm a moron. You meant translucent gas actors that drift around the bombarded area and inflict damage, right? I know of a mod with such actors, so perhaps I could use that as a code resource.



Thanks, everyone, for your input! I look forward to hearing more awesome suggestions (if any) :)
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Matt
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Matt »

You can also address bwc153's other points (which I agree with) by making a version compatible with Hideous Destructor!

Not a huge fan of artificial weapon inaccuracy. These guys mostly had full-length rifles and were perfectly capable of shooting pretty damn far - I think some clever fog use, pressures from flanking enemies or artillery, and maybe one of those "have to stand still for a little while to aim better" things would be plenty enough to keep the mod from turning into a clicking game.
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Big C
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Big C »

I also think you could implement mounted machineguns which you could use (stationary, of course).

Of course that begs the question of how to enable the AI troops to use them.
bwc153
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by bwc153 »

Vaecrius wrote:You can also address bwc153's other points (which I agree with) by making a version compatible with Hideous Destructor!

Not a huge fan of artificial weapon inaccuracy. These guys mostly had full-length rifles and were perfectly capable of shooting pretty damn far - I think some clever fog use, pressures from flanking enemies or artillery, and maybe one of those "have to stand still for a little while to aim better" things would be plenty enough to keep the mod from turning into a clicking game.
Well, I was very vague, and not exactly sure if my entire idea would be feasible, let alone if people would want something so realistic in doom...

What I'd prefer, is if you were under fire, you wouldn't be able to shoot well (suppression effect),
Also, funny how the creator of HD comes in and mentions HD, as when I said some of my stuff I Was thinking about various features from HD that would fit real nicely in this mod (Bleeding out, the general handling of weapons etc., including increased recoil when moving as you just mentioned). And also the fact that I had just been playing HD only hours beforehand on Plutonia (Does not work well unless you cheat and spawn marines to help!)

But in general accuracy IMO should be reduced, and (partiucularly with any automatic weapons) recoil increased when:
- Under fire (particularly Artillery, emphasising the fact that the player should find cover)
- Moving (Similar to Hideous Destructor)
- Wounded (Similar to Hideous Destructor)
XutaWoo wrote:
bwc153 wrote:-Allow NPCs to crouch
Similar to in that GZDoom mod with the inca soldiers, and their ability to crouch, this would make for some interesting fights between the trenches. Although, this would be better for 'dedicated defensive' NPCs (NPCs that are supposed to stay in a trench to defend it)
Please note that if you're talking about Enjay's...whatsitsface, the enemies never actually changed their height; it was purely visual.
Well Damn... he did a good job of making you think the enemy was unshootable, i'll have to remember that next time i play through it. Either way, it would still be a nice visual effect, even if it did absolutely nothing gameplay wise.
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Dr. Crushcup
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Dr. Crushcup »

Vaecrius wrote:You can also address bwc153's other points (which I agree with) by making a version compatible with Hideous Destructor!

Not a huge fan of artificial weapon inaccuracy. These guys mostly had full-length rifles and were perfectly capable of shooting pretty damn far - I think some clever fog use, pressures from flanking enemies or artillery, and maybe one of those "have to stand still for a little while to aim better" things would be plenty enough to keep the mod from turning into a clicking game.
Your idea for having to stand still to aim better was something I was just thinking about, and I know of a way to do something like that, so I think you'll be able to expect something like that in the final game :wink:

Big C wrote:I also think you could implement mounted machineguns which you could use (stationary, of course).

Of course that begs the question of how to enable the AI troops to use them.
This was part of the original plan. Of course, I have been pondering how to do this since the beginning of the project. Perhaps make the stationary gun a pickup that gives the activator a custominventory that causes them to morph into a machine gun? I have no clue, that's my senseless/hacky idea, anyway. perhaps someone will post their ideas on this.

bwc153 wrote: Well Damn... he did a good job of making you think the enemy was unshootable, i'll have to remember that next time i play through it. Either way, it would still be a nice visual effect, even if it did absolutely nothing gameplay wise.
Indeed it would, I might consider adding in some crouching frames when I get to the enemy spriting part of the project.
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LilWhiteMouse
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by LilWhiteMouse »

I took a quick stab at a British female MKIV:
Image
I didn't bother taking it any farther because my texturing skills suck, and I've had no luck getting a model from MM3d into GZDoom. If you want it, I can *try* to finish it, but someone else would have to convert it to something GZDoom could use.
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Matt »

This might be a dumb question, but... how is a tank female? :?
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LilWhiteMouse
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by LilWhiteMouse »

Female tanks have lighter armaments then their male counter parts.
Last edited by LilWhiteMouse on Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tragos
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Tragos »

Firing on the move makes you much less accurate. Weapons at that time period where pretty heavy, also considering the tactics of trench warfare most battles where fought with both sides camping out taking potshots at each other. Not to get too far ahead of myself here, but could you possibly add in Biplanes? I just love the sound the whirling engines make, along with their machine-guns. They could just fly at preset points strafing random spots on the battlefield.
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Blaskowitz
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Blaskowitz »

Was there moaning minnies out there? (to understand its a 8 barreled cannon that shoots mortars)
I can rip some from operation rheingold.
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DoomerMrT
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by DoomerMrT »

Sounds very interesting, I am certainly looking forward to it. I am especially interested in the infantry weapons, as I am a WWI/WWII gun collector :) I suggest that you should still find a way to include iron sights, that is an important thing if you want to make general inaccuracy. (also make the hand shaking a bit while aiming?)
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Dr. Crushcup
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by Dr. Crushcup »

LilWhiteMouse wrote:Female tanks have lighter armaments then their male counter parts.

[EDIT] A quick and dirty texmap, saved as MD3. No idea if it works.
mkiv.7z
Thanks, mouse! I'll download this and give it a try when I get home (or beforehand, if I can access a zdoom-capable PC)
Even in its incomplete state, the screenshot of the tank looks awesome!
Tragos wrote:Firing on the move makes you much less accurate. Weapons at that time period where pretty heavy, also considering the tactics of trench warfare most battles where fought with both sides camping out taking potshots at each other. Not to get too far ahead of myself here, but could you possibly add in Biplanes? I just love the sound the whirling engines make, along with their machine-guns. They could just fly at preset points strafing random spots on the battlefield.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that, but maybe I could add in something of the sort. I'll have to track down a Sopwith or Fokker .md2 or .md3 first, but after that, I'd be glad to give it a try!
Blaskowitz wrote:Was there moaning minnies out there? (to understand its a 8 barreled cannon that shoots mortars)
I can rip some from operation rheingold.
Unfortunately, I think the Nebelwerfer was invented in the late 1930s. It would be a bit anachronistic to have it in the trenches :?
DoomerMrT wrote:Sounds very interesting, I am certainly looking forward to it. I am especially interested in the infantry weapons, as I am a WWI/WWII gun collector :) I suggest that you should still find a way to include iron sights, that is an important thing if you want to make general inaccuracy. (also make the hand shaking a bit while aiming?)
True, very true. The problem isn't so much with including the ironsights, as it is with getting them to line up properly. In the game I ripped the sprites from, the ironsights are lower than the center of the screen (though the center of the screen isn't the main focus point for weapon aiming in the engine). In (z)Doom, the center of the screen is the focal point, so your shots would always go low while using the sights. I can't really remedy the problem since changing the scale of the sprite would make it look whack compared to the other sprites in the set.
I have tried changing the positioning of the sprite in the WAD editor, but that doesn't seem to have any effect in-game.
If anyone has any ideas on how to fix this, though, I'd be glad to hear them.
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LilWhiteMouse
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Re: WWI Doom (The Great War)

Post by LilWhiteMouse »

If by some miracle the model works (which I have little hope for), or you find some easy'ish way to make it work, let me know and I can finish it for you. Maybe try my hand at some other non-animated stuff.

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