[Release] SD3TII (no updates 01/03/12)

[Cyanosis]

Does anyone find the Bruiser to be more harder/annoying than the Hell Knight? The constant barrage of projectiles can be a real pain to avoid in close quarters as opposed to the Hell Knight's single fireball which takes a short time to throw. Whereas the Bruiser can just unload on you instantly with many which all do a lot of damage. I'm not sure if the replacements should be the other way around, D3 Hell Knight = Hell Knight. Bruiser = Baron of Hell.

[Doomfreak]

This looks perfect! Everything is so same as in Doom 3. Good work.

---

But why are the hell knights so small? I remember them being lot bigger in Doom 3, or I am just wrong?

remember the doom maps, low hight of the maps, remember the cyberdemon, in doom3 is very big....but here is necesary fix the scale becuase are classic doom maps not doom3 maps....

Yeah good point.

@Cyanosis : Absolutely. In my opinion Bruisers are most annoying non-bosses in RoE.

[DOOMERO-21]

This looks perfect! Everything is so same as in Doom 3. Good work.

---

But why are the hell knights so small? I remember them being lot bigger in Doom 3, or I am just wrong?

remember the doom maps, low hight of the maps, remember the cyberdemon, in doom3 is very big....but here is necesary fix the scale becuase are classic doom maps not doom3 maps....

Yeah good point.

@Cyanosis : Absolutely. In my opinion Bruisers are most annoying non-bosses in RoE.

classic baron of hell is replaced by doom3 hellknight and classic hellknight by bruiser.

[Cyanosis]

Yes, we know that, just wasn't sure if for this release if it should be swapped, both are tough but the Bruiser can pump off more shots as opposed to the Hell Knight's single shot. Or maybe a randomizer can be used to alternate between the two.

[DBThanatos]

I do believe in the original game, both are kind of equal in terms of difficulty, except that I always seemed to find the bruisers in small rooms making it harder to avoid.

At any rate, I carefully toyed with health, damage, behavior of this two monsters. The idea behind this, is to, opposed to doom2, make this two monsters completely different, in the sense of how you should approach to them. In doom2, hellknight and baron are nothing but a copy of each other, so, approach is the exact same, except that one lives longer than the other; attacks, damage, speed, behavior, is all the same. In Take II I tried to make them different enough so whenever you face 2 hellknight (D3bruiser) and one baronofhell (d3hellknight), you'll find yourself really thinking how to kill them and what to kill first. Whether I succeeded on the balance, that's for the player to judge, but overall, Im really happy of the results in the playtesting i've been doing.

Still, they're "brothers", so they wont hurt each other nor infight.

Finally, bruiser demon fans will probably be disappointed to see how unhealthy he is vs in the original game, but as I said, this mod focuses in porting as good as I can the doom3 behavior while still considering how doom2 was crafted.

Want an example of what I mean? Cyberdemon. Originally, to have it looking the best as possible, I made the rockets being fired from the appropriate coordinates to make it look like it was coming out of it's gun. It looked good indeed, but upon testing, I found out that in many places, for how levels are setup, the rockets ended crashing with windows and stuff; this is because levels were made considering monsters fired from their center, so, in a window, a regular cyberdemon's rocket would be fired perfectly in the middle, while mine would crash in the upper side of it. This was the case for several monsters; I had to sacrifice several "details", visual, behavioral or whatever, in order to have them working as one needs.

So, bottom line, no, they wont be randomized because they're not supposed to be interchangeable; they were remade to be a somewhat fair yet different-from-each-other trade of the originals

[DOOMERO-21]

one of the reazon why i considered the bruiser than doom3 baron of hell is becuase his desing and attacks, the doom3 baron of hell is the same than hellknight only change the skin...so is not necesary another hellknight custom skin for this mod, bruiser is much better.

compare:

baron of hell

[youtube]ispiST18BvE&feature=related[/youtube]


bruiser

[youtube]q_Xq3J3_GoQ&feature=related[/youtube]

[Doomfreak]

Why not make the hellknight a randomspawner that either spawns a hell knight or bruiser,and baron of hell would be baron of hell. It would just bring more interest because the all original d3 models are already seen in doom 2, but the new ones are not.

---

Also, there was other differences between d3 hellknight and baron of hell than only the health, atleast in one doom 3 mod. Baron's shot dealt more damage while it was little slower.

[Cyanosis]

The problem is that doomero would have to rip and code the Baron, which takes time I can assure you, and it's not an official monster so I don't think it counts. I know the Spider Mastermind wasn't in the original game but it was an official concept. The Baron is fan made.

[DBThanatos]

Why not make the hellknight a randomspawner that either spawns a hell knight or bruiser,and baron of hell would be baron of hell. It would just bring more interest because the all original d3 models are already seen in doom 2, but the new ones are not.

...I carefully toyed with health, damage, behavior of this two monsters. The idea behind this, is to, opposed to doom2, make this two monsters completely different, in the sense of how you should approach to them. In doom2, hellknight and baron are nothing but a copy of each other, so, approach is the exact same, except that one lives longer than the other; attacks, damage, speed, behavior, is all the same. In Take II I tried to make them different enough so whenever you face 2 hellknight (D3bruiser) and one baronofhell (d3hellknight), you'll find yourself really thinking how to kill them and what to kill first. Whether I succeeded on the balance, that's for the player to judge, but overall, Im really happy of the results in the playtesting i've been doing.

Still, they're "brothers", so they wont hurt each other nor infight.

...

So, bottom line, no, they wont be randomized because they're not supposed to be interchangeable; they were remade to be a somewhat fair yet different-from-each-other trade of the originals

[DOOMERO-21]

The problem is that doomero would have to rip and code the Baron, which takes time I can assure you, and it's not an official monster so I don't think it counts. I know the Spider Mastermind wasn't in the original game but it was an official concept. The Baron is fan made.

the spider mastermind form part of this mod.

[Blue Shadow]

The bruiser's only apparent weakness is that it has a high 'pain chance', you could almost paralyze it with rapid-fire weapons. But that doesn't mean it won't
return fire.

When it comes to the hellknight, it won't enter its pain animation unless it receives an amount of damage greater than or equal to 25.

[DOOMERO-21]

The bruiser's only apparent weakness is that it has a high 'pain chance', you could almost paralyze it with rapid-fire weapons. But that doesn't mean it won't
return fire.

When it comes to the hellknight, it won't enter its pain animation unless it receives an amount of damage greater than or equal to 25.

well i was playing roe and using the pistol i was attacking the bruiser and he enter so easily to the pain state, "the problem" is when he attack, if you attack him during that moment he will not enter to pain state .....this make this monster so dangerous...

[DBThanatos]

Another one I recorded several days ago, but only today I found time to upload it.



Playtesting is almost over. Release is nearer.

[CaptainToenail]

Makes more sense to me to have the Doom3 Hellknight replace the original Hellknight rather than the Baron as it is less threatening than the Bruiser. Also you do realise that 'Bruiser' is a reference to the pair of Baron's in the Phobos Anomaly, who are known as the 'Bruiser Brothers'?

[DBThanatos]

True, but overall, I wanted to respect the original idea that DOOMERO had, while actually balancing it. Also, to be honest, Im not too fond of the Bruiser demon look, mostly because of the screen on it. For some reason it looks kind of silly to me (or, at some other point it reminds me certain sections of Silent hill 3). And while I dont especially like the design of the hellknight in doom3, I did find myself thinking "oh shit" whenever I found one in the original game, so I wanted to do the same here.

I guess is just me being biased against the bruiser demon