Voxels?

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.
User avatar
Nash
 
 
Posts: 17468
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:07 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Re: Voxels?

Post by Nash »

Will we be able to turn off the LOD models? Zooming in on a far-away model gives away the incredibly low detail voxels.
User avatar
Spleen
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:07 pm

Re: Voxels?

Post by Spleen »

Nash wrote:Will we be able to turn off the LOD models? Zooming in on a far-away model gives away the incredibly low detail voxels.
This is noticeable even without zooming in. Stand in one corner of DooMAD's example WAD and look at the lamp post in the other, then slowly approach it and back away from it. The lamp post will pop in and out of being mipped.

Therefore, I agree that this would be useful.
User avatar
NeuralStunner
 
 
Posts: 12328
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:04 pm
Preferred Pronouns: No Preference
Operating System Version (Optional): Windows 11
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
Location: capital N, capital S, no space

Re: Voxels?

Post by NeuralStunner »

Nash wrote:Will we be able to turn off the LOD models?
I would like to be able to do that, as well.
User avatar
DavidPH
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:46 pm

Re: Voxels?

Post by DavidPH »

Now that I think about it, all that needs to happen is mip-mapping needs to take resolution into account. For higher resolutions at the same distance, it should use a higher quality model. That way you still get the performance enhancement of mip-mapping without losing quality at higher game resolutions.
User avatar
NeuralStunner
 
 
Posts: 12328
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:04 pm
Preferred Pronouns: No Preference
Operating System Version (Optional): Windows 11
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
Location: capital N, capital S, no space

Re: Voxels?

Post by NeuralStunner »

Texture-wise I've never seen a performance hit without mipmaps, nor has the "aliased" appearance particularly bothered me.
User avatar
Snarboo
Posts: 2599
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:37 am

Re: Voxels?

Post by Snarboo »

Voxels are system intensive and I think having some mipmaps is better than having none.
Last edited by Snarboo on Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Spleen
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:07 pm

Re: Voxels?

Post by Spleen »

DavidPH wrote:Now that I think about it, all that needs to happen is mip-mapping needs to take resolution into account. For higher resolutions at the same distance, it should use a higher quality model. That way you still get the performance enhancement of mip-mapping without losing quality at higher game resolutions.
Not only resolution, but also field of view matters. With a low FOV, you can even get artifacts even at a low resolution.
User avatar
Salad Viking
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: In high orbit

Re: Voxels?

Post by Salad Viking »

Image

This has GOT to be in OpenGL.
User avatar
NeuralStunner
 
 
Posts: 12328
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:04 pm
Preferred Pronouns: No Preference
Operating System Version (Optional): Windows 11
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
Location: capital N, capital S, no space

Re: Voxels?

Post by NeuralStunner »

I was discussing with Spleen in IRC, and I would like to see voxels in GL as well - But I'd like the option to display them as similarly to software as possible. Personally I think the "particle" style would blend in better with sprites. Plus, unless I miss my guess completely, single planes should be faster to render than numerous cubes. Granted, I'd guess some folks would like cubes more, so it would be nice as a choice.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 49193
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: Voxels?

Post by Graf Zahl »

The only way this can be handled in GL is to draw the visible surfaces of each voxel separately as quads. The end result would be a model-like representation of the voxel.

And since that amounts to an extremely high amount of polygons the only option is a vertex buffer. However, since I don't support vertex buffers on pre-GL2.0 hardware it'd mean that anybody using an ancient NVidia FX5xxx or similarly old ATI or (god beware) an Intel integrated chipset will be out of luck. And I won't invest any work in these cards anymore. They'd be better off with sprites anyway.
User avatar
Caligari87
Admin
Posts: 6196
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Preferred Pronouns: He/Him

Re: Voxels?

Post by Caligari87 »

It wouldn't be possible to render them using particles ? Admittedly my knowledge of the engine is next to nil, but it seems that if the GL renderer is capable of effects of the railgun and particle fountains, so couldn't that be applied to some extent? Just curious, forgive me.

8-)
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 49193
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: Voxels?

Post by Graf Zahl »

Why should I render them in such an inefficient way that on top of being inefficient also is not the best looking method that can be done?

I'd have to project each single particle each frame and recalculate the coordinates. I couldn't optimize it in any way meaning I'd have to do 1000+ draw calls per voxel, disregarding the fact that this would not create a real 3-dimensional object which is a genuine problem with looking up or down.

With a vertex buffer and a real 3D setup I only set a rotation matrix and send one single draw call for the entire object.
User avatar
Caligari87
Admin
Posts: 6196
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Preferred Pronouns: He/Him

Re: Voxels?

Post by Caligari87 »

Ah, I see. I didn't realize how inefficient it could be, and I just don't care much for the "tons of tiny 3D cubes" look when it comes to voxels. :shrug: But, better that, than no support at all.

8-)
User avatar
NeuralStunner
 
 
Posts: 12328
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:04 pm
Preferred Pronouns: No Preference
Operating System Version (Optional): Windows 11
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
Location: capital N, capital S, no space

Re: Voxels?

Post by NeuralStunner »

Yeah, what Cali said applies for me as well.
User avatar
Nash
 
 
Posts: 17468
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:07 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Re: Voxels?

Post by Nash »

Just more of a curiosity... since Ken Silverman wrote an MD2/MD3 -> KVX converter, would it be possible to do such a thing in real-time? That would mean the software renderer can load GZDoom's MODELDEF models and render them as voxels on the fly.

This sounds really crazty already but I thought I'd just ask.

(I don't care much about models in the software renderer; I'm just curious)

Return to “General”