UDMF

[Ghastly]

It's just that different ports have different features. So either UDMF allowed only the features that are common to all the participating ports, or it allowed ports to have their own extensions to the format covering their own exclusive features.

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that.

[ReX]

What in the raw data are you editing? Most of what wadauthor sees as "raw data" is actually basic data that can usually be found in many of DB's editing windows. For example, thing numbers can be changed in the window you get when you double click on a thing.

Yes, most of the so-called "raw data" in WA are seen in the editing windows of DB. However, there are some things that I tend to do that I haven't yet figured out how to do in DB via the editing window. (Of course, I can do them manually, but it's much easier to do them by manipulating raw data.) For example, I haven't figured out how to edit the properties of a vertex in DB. I sometimes need to move the vertex to a particular position, and I can move it manually. In DB that requires reducing the grid to the appropriate size, then dragging the vertex until it's just right, then dropping it into place. The other thing I wasn't able to find was the bitset value (although I admit this is not something that I need to use often, unless it's not in the config file; moreover, DB specifies the name of the linedef special, obviating the need to know the bitset value). But by-and-large I have to admit that DB is a far more versatile tool than WadAuthor.

[Cutmanmike]

Well I always did the grid thing even in Wadauthor so I have no idea about precise vertex moving, although I believe if you hold alt and move vertexes around they won't snap to the grid (actually that might just be WA...). Same with the bitset thing but I haven't come across something that wasn't defined in the DB config file yet.

[CodeImp]

For example, I haven't figured out how to edit the properties of a vertex in DB. I sometimes need to move the vertex to a particular position, and I can move it manually..

A vertex has no more properties than X and Y. Although in UDMF it could have (slope height anyone?). So I think I'll make a properties dialog for it.

[Tubers]

I guess UDMF is easy to use other than using scripts so much, btw glad that we are having a good UDMF discussion for DB2.

[ReX]

A vertex has no more properties than X and Y. Although in UDMF it could have (slope height anyone?). So I think I'll make a properties dialog for it.

Yes, I completely agree that co-ordinates are the only map properties of a vertex. That was the basis of my illustration in my last post.

Btw, how does one go about assigning a z value to a vertex in DB?

[CodeImp]

Currently you don't, because there is no format (not even UDMF) that allows a Z value for a vertex (but I suppose Graf/Randy could add it for the slope height). If there is going to be a Z property it will probably be in a Custom tab where UDMF properties are listed, or I will add an input field for it (next to X and Y) that only appears in UDMF mode.

[Gez]

Currently you don't, because there is no format (not even UDMF) that allows a Z value for a vertex (but I suppose Graf/Randy could add it for the slope height).

It should actually have two Z value, Zc and Zf.

[CodeImp]

Currently you don't, because there is no format (not even UDMF) that allows a Z value for a vertex (but I suppose Graf/Randy could add it for the slope height).

It should actually have two Z value, Zc and Zf.

Yes, indeed, good point.

[Enjay]

Excellent. This is exactly the kind of discussion that I was hoping for. Already, I have a much clearer picture of what may come from UDMF. The DB2 screenshot really helped too.


Although this question is more related to DB2 than UDMF, it's one that I would like to see answered.

Also, in DB2 will there be a mapping option to create sectors directly (both square and polygonal) instead of via linedefs? If that's the case, it'll be more of a gem than what I've heard it will be.

I find the ability to put down pre-made squares, polygons, "circles", arcs, arches, pits, pillars, whatever very useful in DeePsea. Will anything like that be available in DB2 or is it purely a line-drawing experience?

[ReX]

I find the ability to put down pre-made squares, polygons, "circles", arcs, arches, pits, pillars, whatever very useful in DeePsea. Will anything like that be available in DB2 or is it purely a line-drawing experience?

Yes, that's why I was asking. I am willing to learn how to create sectors starting with linedefs, but it makes it a lot easier for me to just start with sectors.

[Zippy]

I believe what was mentioned before is that DB2's ability to accept plugins will allow someone to create a "WA-style" drawing plugin.

[CodeImp]

Yea these sort of things can be created with a plugin. There is only the line drawing in DB2 to draw new sectors. I will probably make a plugin later that allows drawing a single line to create a square/round sector. But you can also use a prefab: draw the square/circle once, select it and save it to a file, then you can insert it as many time as you like and with every insert you can directly resize/flip/rotate it. But this is offtopic

[Remmirath]

UDMF is useful because it drops nodes in the trash bin, and uses a plain text for vertexes, linedefs, sectors and things position and lenght.
It also allows you to set colors, fade and other properties for a sector directly from an advanced menu.

Other than that, i don't see any other advantage in it.

[Graf Zahl]

UDMF is useful because it drops nodes in the trash bin

No, it doesn't. You will not want to release extremely large maps without prebuilt nodes. The only thing that'S missing is UDMF handling in ZDBSP.

Other than that, i don't see any other advantage in it.

... which pretty much invalidates your opinion...