Reincarnation of Evil - Remaking Doom 3/4 Content in 2

[Grimm]

Do we have a good YouTube video for the Archvile? Heretic (via the Maulator) had a good variety of flame sprites. Hexen as well.

And you're quite welcome, Ghastly_dragon

[przndoom]

well look what ifound when i was cleaning my comp


i was trying to make a hell knight sprites

[CaptainToenail]

Lol! A gurning imp! Aaargh

[Ghastly]

@Grimm: I downloaded all of the Doom 3 videos of someone playing through on nightmare mode (I'll use it as a walkthrough if I get Doom 3), and there are some times where he doesn't use the soul cube or chainsaw on an archvile immediately, so I have a pretty good idea how the archvile acts. The Heretic and Hexen flames (maulotaur's especially) wouldn't really work, but I think I could use Photoshop to edit them a little.

@PrznDoom: The stone imp could probably be used as a base for the Hell Knight, but it would take a huge amount of editing.

[Onslaught Six]

I dunno, I'd rather see the Hell Knights done up using the Barons or existing Hell Knights as a base. But that's me.

(Another random thing is that I really don't like a lot of the D3 designs in general--a lot of the monsters end up as blobby grey things that look more at home in Duke3D than in Doom.)

[Grimm]

Hmm. Well you know someone just uploaded a "Doom 3 Baron" to the archives. It's the latest /newstuff at Doomworld. It's a little hokey but it's a start.

The thing is those suckers were so wide. I'd say you'd have to try and base it off the Demon somehow, if anything. Maybe the Cyber, too.

[Vegeta(dw)]

Any chance for my Hell Knight from DOOM 2.5? It's a bit big, but fits with the other monsters I made.

[Ghastly]

There's a Hell Knight in D2.5? *Checks* Oh, looks cool, but the limbs look a little odd. The legs look like it's running full tilt and the arms are in the same position for all of it. It's -MUCH- better than I could ever do, though, and with a little editing would be perfect .

After the Hell Knight's done, it could be edited easily for the three Hunters and maybe Bruiser.

[Vegeta(dw)]

Yeah, when I made it I had no access to DOOM 3, and I didn't know about youtube. I based in a DOOM 3 preview pic where the Hell Knight was running toward the player. I was disappointed then to see how slow it is in game. Perhaps you can give it a slightly faster speed than the other monsters like the Cyberdemon or a little faster, but nothing too fast.
There are other DOOM 3 monsters that may fit, like the Vagary, Chainsaw Zombie, Guardian (with the floating ball of light included), a kick ass Trite (in one of the big wads, forget the two variants included in the small ones, they just suck, the one I talking about was made by KRoNoS using these of mine as a base). Then there are some poor creatures like the Cherub, flaming zombie, and others.
For the fat zombie, my advise is to use the fat guards from Corridor 7 (or a game of these), adding the guts from the Mancubus, and a different head, so they fit with the civilian zombies. The Blood's Butcher, while cool, has a very different style that may look out of place near the other zombies.
There's also a machinegun and a shield Z-sec zombies, but I understand that you may want to use the one you made instead.
There was also a different Lost Soul than the one included in DOOM 2.5 it was made by Nmn, it was just perfect, almost from scratch, it's a real shame that it got lost.

[Ghastly]

That Trite looks really good, but the problem with it is that it has no rotations. I was going to use the Chainsaw Zombie from the Realm667 Beastiary (which is almost exactly the same, but the arms were edited), and I'm trying to figure out the best way to recreate or replace the Vagary's main attack (I'm leaning towards a random spread of projectiles), which is the reason I haven't started on that, yet.

Once they're finished, I was going to use the Trite, Tick and Vagary (with some R667 Beastiary monsters) for a few Hell-set maps.

[Vegeta(dw)]

And idea I had was to give the Vagary the archvile walking action. Then put some entities in the map that start dead, and on its resurrection frame they dissapear. But the trick is that the Vagary in the resurrecting frame ends shooting an entity that looks like the one that dissapeared. Once they hit something, they keep in the floor, waiting for the Vagary to restart the cycle. Something like this was done for the final boss of Action DOOM, and in a boss of Batman DOOM, except this one was not able to use multiple times each of these objects in the floor.
To make it more dynamic, they could have some gravity in air, so they fall faster to the floor, and they could home a bit to the player to make them harder to dodge, and more telekinesis looking.

As in DOOM 3 archviles don't resurrect monsters, you can remove the respawn frame of all monsters, change Archvile walking code to behave as a normal monster, and then it could work.

Other than that, you could have some objects that have 0 speed, are not shootable, and have the lost soul attack code (with the same sound the Vagary does on it telekinesis attack). When the Vagary dies, it activates a script that kills them all. This may be more accurate, and you could have more than one kind of these objects, adding to the realism.

[Ghastly]

I was hoping to make something a little less map-specific. For someone trying to use the Vagary for a boss fight, that would work, but as common monsters (or even just two in one map) that would be tricky to pull off correctly. Hopefully, the monsters in this pack will just simply have to be placed in a map to work, though I'll include a few things that will have to be activated with ACS (like a state for the trite to use some webbing to drop down to the floor), and some argument specific things like an imp that leaps when it sees the player.

By the way, does anyone want to edit the standard Lost Soul to make the Forgotten One (wider, larger horns, empty eyesockets), or should I just recolor it so it's more brown and has darker fire?

[Vegeta(dw)]

Then what about invisible (or not) projectiles fired by the Vagary in different angles (not toward the player) with 0 missile damage, with a very high speed so they behave like a hitscan attack, and have some gravity so they explode in the floor. When they explode they spawn a Vagary Ball (these egg like things that are in the Vagary arena, included in the DOOM 2.5 resources), with an animation to make them look like they were spawned. To make it look realistic the Vagary should be doing some animation that fits with this spawning, or at least some sound.
The egg like things have 0 speed, but attack like the Lost Soul (perhaps homing a bit), and can't be destroyed by the player yet they block projectiles. They also explode (without causing damage) at the end of their attack frame (some seconds after they start charging).
They'd keep in the floor, but once they attack they'd have a no-gravity and floating flag.

On this way, they could be usable on any map, and retain some relation with the original.

I'm sending you a PM with the e-mail of the guy that coded the DOOM 2.5 monsters, he never implemented it, but he told me he had ideas for the Vagary (yet he coded for Edge, not sure how much things can be translated from a port to other). He also made the maps, perhaps he feels like helping you on this.

[Grimm]

I could work on that Lost Soul thing for you, long as you can set me up with the appropriate screenshots/videos

[Ghastly]

Here's a screenshot from the Doom wiki: http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Image:Doom3- ... en-one.jpg, and a youtube video with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jmaO4Iwh60. It should be fairly easy, as it looks really close to the original. The horns, if anything, should be edited, though. Thanks!

@Vegeta: That attack would probably work, actually. I'll test it out, thanks .