Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Projects that alter game functions but do not include new maps belong here.
Forum rules
The Projects forums are only for projects. If you are asking questions about a project, either find that project's thread, or start a thread in the General section instead.

Got a cool project idea but nothing else? Put it in the project ideas thread instead!

Projects for any Doom-based engine (especially 3DGE) are perfectly acceptable here too.

Please read the full rules for more details.
User avatar
Somagu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:56 pm

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Somagu »

Eric_ wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:16 pm Got a nasty desync for you to unravel. It can happen under much more ordinary conditions, but this is the most reliable reproduction I've got:
Go to the range with two players. One player goes into the tunnel and waits at the other end of the range (does not leave the tunnel yet). The other player summons a bunch of hell knights (about 30 will do, more wouldn't hurt), alerts them, then hides in the tunnel. The first player in the tunnel, not yet known to the knights, comes out at the far end of the range and flies back towards the counter and the horde. Somewhere along the journey, it'll desync or even hard crash on Linux.
I don't think this is actually specific to hell knights. It seems more related to general targeting functions, because it only desyncs under the exact circumstance that the first player in the tunnel is never seen or heard by the knights before the second player has alerted them and then left their line of sight. It might even be the result of a GZDoom-side change, considering the OS-specific hard crashes and that I was able to replicate the desync as far back as 4.7.1b, even though it only became a prominent issue much more recently.

Regarding the bonedrone: now that the fragmentation has been cut down, it feels pretty reasonable switching their fragtype back to hdb_scrap again. They do a lot more armor damage compared to hdb_frag without the constant oneshots. It maybe feels just slightly too weak on average, but the projectile is so fast and hard to avoid that it really shouldn't be that strong, and when it does roll well, you certainly feel it the same way you feel a vanilla revenant rolling an 80. Boners stand as the tier between imps and hell knights, so their attack probably shouldn't be both harder to avoid and more instantly deadly than balefire.
Seconding this second notion. A lucky revenant can still knock your ass out in one go, they still give armor a worse day than any other non-hitscanner, and if they catch you without a vest, you're gonna burn through most of a medikit just treating the one fireball, if you don't die outright.
User avatar
Abba Zabba
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:50 pm
Location: a place lol!

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

Somagu wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:23 pmSeconding this second notion.
Thirding. I did some runs with this tweak and, while I wouldn't call the damage type 'slightly' weaker, the consistent higher armor damage combined with the now relevant burning damage (because you survive the initial hit) from the drone, gave me a much more fitting fight against such a strong, blazing fast projectile. Dead-on center mass hits are also still quite brutal, turning you into barely living mush if you have garrison armor, or a moderately wounded marine if you have battle armor. Two recommendations, though:

One, with the above damage type change, increase the amount of of scrap projectiles (rather than fragments) generated from drones by a bit. The damage is great but it feels just a slight bit too weak. Maybe around 20% more?

Two, buff the revenants missile fatigue so that it still stands out from other monsters with the cooldown being lengthy, but not so long so as to make the revenant utterly helpless after it launches its initial two drones. I've had an easy time with good cover when the revenant launches the initial two. It may as well shrug its shoulders at me after that, or go full kamikaze and run up and punch me.
Spoiler: Bugs (pardon the length)
User avatar
Matt
Posts: 9679
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Matt »

Monsters being able to interact with stuff is intentional, drones less so.

I'll try to keep an eye out for that desync but it does feel like some kind of memory handling issue...
User avatar
Eric_
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:41 pm

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Eric_ »

I've since been able to replicate the desync as far back as HD 4.4.2c on GZDoom 4.4.2, on three separate computers running different operating systems, so whatever's causing it, it's apparently been around for a long time. I suspect this one's a red herring - not that it's not a problem, but we'd have picked up on it sometime sooner in the past two years if it were so easily tripped. What's been occurring in normal gameplay might be something else entirely. I got another desync very similar to these two when I wasn't recording, and that was on a Doom 1 map where the only monsters involved were shotgunners and imps, so that rules out anything specific to the hell knights, archviles, or cacodemons that were present in the other fight. My first suspicion before I'd started focusing on hell knights was something relating to fear - thunderbuster BeamSpots being fired near enemies in the moments leading up to three separate desyncs doesn't seem like a coincidence to me. Unfortunately, it's proven really hard to replicate in a controlled environment, or even on the very same maps where the desyncs happened the first time. Every time we think we have a lead, we either play a session intentionally trying to trigger it and instead enjoy several maps in a row desync-free, or we get evidence suggesting something else is at fault besides what we were thinking.
User avatar
Abba Zabba
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:50 pm
Location: a place lol!

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

Matt wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:46 am Monsters being able to interact with stuff is intentional, drones less so.
Thanks for that change for the drones, I was beyond confused when it first happened out of the blue. With regards to monster behavior, I (wrongly) assumed that HD gave all monsters somehow more permissions than vanilla for interacting with map linedefs, namely switches and levers, like the drone was able to do. However, monsters can unfortunately still interact with stuff beyond blocking lines despite that recent AI commit, so that doesn't work. The frequency of interaction occurring is seemingly the same as before, too.

In regards to that particular map, the switch is covered (along with being slightly recessed into the wall, meaning vanilla monsters shouldn't be able to have their hitbox collide with it) but this blocking line bypass bug is what allows them to trigger it. No idea what flags that switch as being interactable with monsters as SLADE says they aren't permitted to, but it's irrelevant to the aforementioned bug, just wanted to be clear what's causing this.
User avatar
Matt
Posts: 9679
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Matt »

Abba Zabba wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:13 amIn regards to that particular map, the switch is covered (along with being slightly recessed into the wall, meaning vanilla monsters shouldn't be able to have their hitbox collide with it) but this blocking line bypass bug is what allows them to trigger it. No idea what flags that switch as being interactable with monsters as SLADE says they aren't permitted to, but it's irrelevant to the aforementioned bug, just wanted to be clear what's causing this.
I'm guessing the TryMove check manages to overlap both the blocking line and the switch line at once, causing the switch line to register as the blocking line.

If that's the case I'm not terribly inclined to fix this just because it'll require a bunch more extra checks whenever that happens (which is a lot).
User avatar
Abba Zabba
Posts: 2161
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:50 pm
Location: a place lol!

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

Matt wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:19 pm I'm guessing the TryMove check manages to overlap both the blocking line and the switch line at once, causing the switch line to register as the blocking line.

If that's the case I'm not terribly inclined to fix this just because it'll require a bunch more extra checks whenever that happens (which is a lot).
Would it be possible to simply limit the range of this interaction check so that you don't need to restructure a separate, more CPU intensive check? That way it still only activates things the monster brushes up against rather than penetrating through walls or anything else. It would be great to see this bug squashed in one form or another.

Awesome to see both robots get a static guard mode! That's one of the things I particularly wanted for the HERP, as its only saving grace for things running it down was to moderately increase it's fire rate. Handy for the DERP too so I can set it up defensively where I know trouble is waiting, without alerting everything to it and ruining the element of surprise.
User avatar
Matt
Posts: 9679
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Matt »

Looking at the code again it seems there should be a limit to the activation range. Not sure if this will actually address the issue but it'll at least stop lines from activating that should clearly be too far away to touch.

Return to “Gameplay Mods”