Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

Post by Matt »

Sascha_Fool wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:56 amIt may be that I just need to get used to it, but the footsteps as they are now are incredibly distracting for me, at least in the way they sync to the weapon bobbing. One or two dev updates before that was fine, and I like the idea a lot of actually needing to crouch to sneak past mobs now.
I found it was unbearable when the bobbing and steps were not in sync. Not sure what to do except suggest setting hd_crossbob to false.
Abba Zabba wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:36 pmAre the (assuming they're WIP, since there's currently no bob for player movement) new weapon bob changes aimed at potentially eliminating the use of frame interpolation?
There's no plan to get rid of the current (native) weapon sprite interpolation - that missing bobbing was just a bug.
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Abba Zabba
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

Post by Abba Zabba »

Ok, good to know.

I thought the new footstep sounds were going to be quite distracting, but the speed to volume ratio change seems right on the money, the sounds grew on me very quickly. It's also supremely helpful to have some sort of tell for nearby hostile marines, on top of being able to identify if they're even a marine since their usual near vocal silence now contrasts with quiet footsteps.

Bug: monsters with melee attacks never cease their melee attacks if their target dies while they're still in uninterrupted melee range. In addition, apparently, if a monster is gibbed and then meleed, this causes a never ending loop of the gibbing due to the corpse being meleed, a bit funny. Only had this gib loop instance happen once with two chaingunners standing shoulder-to-shoulder in a pillbox.

Lastly, while not exactly bug, the stun from monster melee in particular is useless if their target is another incapped monster; they'll simply attack (and seemingly land every hit, given the sound) the downed monster indefinitely until the target either dies or rises again.

Edit: the current vulcanette bob seems quite bouncy compared to the other weapons, especially considering how hefty it is. I halved the bob values and, at least to me, felt way more accurate to what it would be, especially the horizontal bob. Maybe even a little less than 0.6 for the vertical bob, perhaps 0.4-0.5. It's supposed to be bulky, so the lurching movement of going forward should have less of an effect then the entire mass swaying to the sides like it does already.
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Matt »

NEW UPDATE!
Highlights of changes:
  • hd_nokillcount now makes the kill count tracker useless. No more temptation to look at the automap to tell if it's safe to proceed!
  • hd_dirtywindows now changes all non-sky-touching invisible blocking lines to breakable glass windows.
  • Major overhaul of the weapon collision and bob and sight systems.
  • BFG de-suckified. Both batteries are now removable, letting you load two fresh ones immediately instead of waiting for the entire charge sequence between shots. The ball also moves more slowly, doing a more thorough job of clearing the area. The initial lag before the shot has been significantly reduced.
  • This deserves its own bullet point: You can hit Use+Unload to let a BFG charge while it's on the ground, like using the reloader on the Liberator.
  • Brontornis can now penetrate map geometry. (And also finally alerts monsters, oops.)
  • Shotguns now always let you grab 3 shells regardless of health.
  • Single-shot RL no longer eats loaded rocket grenades when switching out for a HEAT.
  • Rocket launcher no longer ever unloads with the Reload button. If a rocket is already in the chamber, you may need to hit Alt. Reload twice.
  • Complete re-do of the squad ghost. They now do no damage at all but are more effective at frightening away multiple nearby enemies instead of stunlocking individuals for ridiculously long periods of time.
  • Complete re-do of the necromancer, making it play much more like a straight-up HD-ified archvile.
  • Flaming barrels now play their sounds at a randomized rate, keeping them from synching up annoyingly.
  • Monster AI overhauled so they pursue and aim missile attacks based on a "mental model" of where the target is, rather than relying on direct knowledge.
  • Friendly necromancer raises now spawn green sparks instead of flame sprites.
  • Tripwire interface no longer appears in the automap HUD like external weapons.
  • Freedoom Map31 and Map17 now give you blurspheres at map start.
  • Major aesthetic improvements to the boss brain.
  • Freedoom Keen replacement now based on the actual Freedoom lizard baby.
  • You can now roll in midair.
  • New Freedoom Keen replacement.
  • New taunts.
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Abba Zabba
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

Bug: it would seem that the recent melee range retargeting check has the chance to make monsters potentially target inanimate objects, because after a quick fight in a garden area, I had a resurrected ninja pirate and revenant attack the same big tree actor for no apparent reason. I believe the revenant attacked the tree first, and the ninja pirate joined in once it noticed the revenant's fixation, so at least that part of targeting works as intended. But unless gremlins can now possess trees, I can't see the danger of a gnarled, stationary tree. :P

Edit: the recent liberator casing commit made me notice that the spawn point for the forward-ejecting casings seems a bit high overall; it's somewhat noticeable at a level, straight ahead angle, but glaringly apparent when firing around 70 degrees upward.
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Eric_
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Eric_ »

Flagpole doesn't work right with the persistent lives setting in co-op. After exiting a level, the lives count seems to be reduced by the number of deaths that happened during the level, even if I'd captured flags to restore those lives. The lives counter also only updates the next time someone dies instead of when the flag is captured. Flags can be carried over from previous levels, so eventually everyone has a flag that'll each respawn after capturing.
Is it intended that broken HERPs can still be fired manually in hand? I'd think at least some of them break in ways besides the electronics failing.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Ferretmanjcdenton »

Hey there . Is there any way to disable the ammo clip management system ?
I know the mod os intended to be played with it .but I really can't controll it well on mobile .means only thing preventing me to play this amazing mod is the ammo system .
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Matt »

Just play with sv_infiniteammo on.
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Abba Zabba
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

The fatigue effect for full auto pistol fire seems out of place in current HD, the immense recoil still seems appropriate, I just don't see how it actually induces any kind of exertion or strain, or even shock in the hands of a (presumed) operator. And it's definitely not a potentially damaging sort of recoil such as the brontornis.

Edit: regarding the recent barrel shrapnel lethality buff, I noticed that burning barrels don't spread actual burning debris, neither the oil & nukage coated shrapnel, nor the little globs that scatter around the immediate vicinity of the can from the fire that spawns after it goes pop. Would you consider adding fire to that or would it be considered overkill?

Edit EDIT: the new HERP targeting laser fear effect causes monsters to get pissed off at allied (evil-aligned) robots, rather than the intended effect of making enemy monsters fearful of player HERPs. Load any map with heavy chaingunner counts and you'll invariably be met with a cacophony of immediate HERP destruction right at the start.
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That0neBr075
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by That0neBr075 »

Quick question but are the zombie sprites with their weapons properly shouldered available for use in other Doom mods with proper crediting, or no?
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Abba Zabba
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

In addition to the new HERP laser bug, I'd strongly suggest giving mancubi more protection (you added that close range obstruction check earlier this year, correct?) against their own napalm shots, either more natural resistance to heat, or a farther range check before they fire, so as to not have huge globs of napalm splash all over themselves. It would still make sense for them to be the masters of initiating infighting, second only to chaingunners or the spider mastermind, but they roast themselves quite often in tight quarters due to them trying to attack me while I'm busy taking care of other things. They're often dead or on death's door when I do get around to handling them, in such scenarios where I can ignore them at first.
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Eric_
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Eric_ »

While I'm happy that you got your boners hard again after they were limp and impotent for so long, I think you overcompensated a bit. Just touching one of the balls can be instantly lethal, and on the off chance you can still walk afterwards, whatever protection you may have been wearing is utterly ruined. Not even a pristine shieldcore is enough to withstand their newfound girth, suggesting greater penetrative power than even a Cyberdemon's HEAT package. The change really engorges their threat level well beyond what their position warrants. Boner gangs were already a common threat even when the danger was simply getting too hot, now you can't allow even one load to touch you, and they're as vigorous as ever with quick reactions and short recoveries between shots. I can't force out too much more innuendo, so I hope you get the idea. Boners are just too frequent and aggressive to be firing such excessively strong projectiles. My humble Thunderbuster doesn't always have enough juice to spray them all down. I'll stop now.

You forgot to update the class name for the hd_potion bind. It still references BluePotion, so it doesn't work.
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Abba Zabba
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

The new drones are scary, but effective. I'd recommend lowering the HP of the drone somewhat considering how many can be sent at you from just one revenant. Also, the blind firing of the drone becomes quite obnoxious when you're not in any LoS with the revenant, making it a rocket drone spam fest for simply having awoken them. The retreat or distancing AI behavior of the revenant also somewhat breaks teleport closets when they happen to not align with the teleport linedef. My suggestion would honestly be to have them initially hunt their targets like they normally did, only going on the defensive and retreating with their fast movement speed when they're wounded. While retreating, they spam the drones as they do now, and when 2-3 are active, they go back to pursuing their target while launching their old rockets for a stronger, more directly offensive attack. Perhaps with a bit of a speed boost to the old rockets to better contrast the start up sluggishness of the new drones. This would also be something of a vanilla doom analogue where some rockets are direct fire, and others are heat-seeking tracers.

Edit: also, it would be great if the taunt command worked at any distance instead of the current limited range, so that monsters a mile away in teleport closets can target you and thus move towards the teleport linedef.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Matt »

Eric_ wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:33 pm While I'm happy that you got your boners hard again after they were limp and impotent for so long, I think you overcompensated a bit. Just touching one of the balls can be instantly lethal, and on the off chance you can still walk afterwards, whatever protection you may have been wearing is utterly ruined. Not even a pristine shieldcore is enough to withstand their newfound girth, suggesting greater penetrative power than even a Cyberdemon's HEAT package. The change really engorges their threat level well beyond what their position warrants. Boner gangs were already a common threat even when the danger was simply getting too hot, now you can't allow even one load to touch you, and they're as vigorous as ever with quick reactions and short recoveries between shots. I can't force out too much more innuendo, so I hope you get the idea. Boners are just too frequent and aggressive to be firing such excessively strong projectiles. My humble Thunderbuster doesn't always have enough juice to spray them all down. I'll stop now.

You forgot to update the class name for the hd_potion bind. It still references BluePotion, so it doesn't work.
Quoting this in full because the wording is important.

But seriously though I agree, which is why I'd already reduced it to 1 ball per shot (and am thinking about giving it two particle trails to match the revenant sprite though I haven't even seen how this looks in id yet) and this morning I've made the ball slower. I'm still considering the options for actual impact damage, especially given how the slowdown actually makes the drone more of a threat under some circumstances.

One thing I will definitely do is reduce the rate that they're spawned - the increased implied physicality of this thing combined with the longer lifetime makes the seemingly infinite supply feel especially incongruous now.

I'm imagining a setup like:

- limited drone regeneration that isn't connected to some sense of fatigue like with other fireballs.
- when the revenant has a drone and LOS with its target, it launches immediately.
- when the revenant has a drone and a target, it may sometimes launch regardless of LOS.
- immediately after a single launch, the revenant will be +frightened for a few seconds.
- otherwise, the revenant is +frightened when *either* it is in LOS or when it has no drones.


As for taunt, is anyone else having lots of situations where it doesn't even work at all, or am I imagining things? (Increasing the range may have serious performance consequences though)
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Matt »

That0neBr075 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:17 pmQuick question but are the zombie sprites with their weapons properly shouldered available for use in other Doom mods with proper crediting, or no?
They're derivative works from the original sprites so whatever you can use the source material for, you can use these for.

(also the id edits are much older than how long I personally believe a copyright should last so yeah sure go for it)
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.8.2a

Post by Abba Zabba »

The proposed direction for the new revenant certainly sounds better than the current drones, but it's still a bit iffy that they can spawn when revenants have no LoS with their target; maybe if the drones didn't use any fuel, and were dormant and stationary (and silent, making them a great ambush for when they're placed in distant locations unbeknownst to the player) until they, themselves, gained LoS with a target, then I could see how it would work better as a proper weapon, rather than a bouncy chaos device that often crashes into some other demon in the room. Or, alternatively, have them gently patrol around as they scout for targets, using up fuel and eventually crashing. Either pick would be a more appropriate 'drone' direction than the current version, imo.

As far as the taunt waking up several hundred things at once, fair enough. Maybe add a more powerful, optional taunt that require a +shift modifier? Or have monsters give up their target after a few minutes instead of indefinitely wandering towards it. The issue I had was specifically from hacking HERPs in far off teleport rooms and using them to clean up some of the opposition before they even teleport in, causing adjacent teleport rooms to target the hacked HERP instead of me. Making the monsters mostly incapable of approaching the teleport linedef.

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