[Public Beta] Ultimate Simplicity (Episodes 1-4)

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.
Qi Len
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Post by Qi Len »

HotWax wrote:
Qi Len wrote:I see you completely and conveniently missed my question under that, so I shall restate it.

By whom is it widely regarded to be common courtesy? Please do not post any nonsense like "these forums," which is obviously untrue, as AgentSpork and I are both at these forums, and most likely others who do not side with this opinion, or "most of this forum" which is relative and quite easily misconstrued to fit the needs of the person making the statement
By the OpenSource community in general, of which I consider ZDoom to be a member.
You are incorrect, the OpenSource community does not in general share the opinion that content should be made available, and Simplicity is just that, content, which I stated earlier had you bothered to pay attention. While it considers such a thing ideal, precious few people other than radicals and Free Software zealots make a fuss over this sort of thing, which seems to be occuring here.
HotWax wrote:But yes, the opinion has been expressed in the past by several members of this forum, and I should point out that Graf and myself are both as much members of this forum as yourself and Spork.
But the key here is that AgentSpork is releasing this wad, not you, not Graf Zahl, not any of these forum members that have supposedly stated agreement, which I have not seen even though I have lurked here for over a year, and thus the decision belongs to AgentSpork.
HotWax wrote:The ultimate decision is of course up to him, and no one has stated otherwise.
Are you saying Graf Zahl threatening to use an ACS decompiler is not taking the decision out of AgentSpork's hands? As clearly that would be the case.
Last edited by Qi Len on Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cutmanmike
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Post by Cutmanmike »

Why are you always trying to turn these threads into court rooms?! I don't remember spork ever saying he didn't want Graf to decompile the script.

Also, since there is a public ACS decompiler (which I never even knew existed I admit) this argument is irrelevant in the first place.

Speaking of, where an earth did you find that blasphemous thing Graf? I needed something like that YEARS ago.
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Siggi
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Post by Siggi »

Didn't Graf make his own little decompiler for ZDoom based off a Hexen ACS decompiler?
I remember reading something along those lines somewhere... :?
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Cutmanmike
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Post by Cutmanmike »

Psycho Siggi wrote:Didn't Graf make his own little decompiler for ZDoom based off a Hexen ACS decompiler?
I remember reading something along those lines somewhere... :?
Point is, it's possible.
Qi Len
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Post by Qi Len »

Cutmanmike wrote:Why are you always trying to turn these threads into court rooms?! I don't remember spork ever saying he didn't want Graf to decompile the script.
One can fairly safely assume, that if a person does not want to include his scripts in a wad, that he does not want them decompiled either.
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Cutmanmike
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Post by Cutmanmike »

Like I said since there IS a decompiler (or it is possible to make such a thing), there's no way of avoiding it and this discussion is pointless.
Qi Len
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Post by Qi Len »

You seem to be missing something. There is a decompiler for Hexen ACS, indeed, it is included with each copy of Doom Builder. From the sounds of it Graf Zahl has created a similar decompiler for ZDoom ACS. Which, I would like to point out to you, in a small twist of irony, has not been released to us, either in source form or otherwise.
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

Which of course is a mandatory requirement. Graf should share EVERYTHING he makes with us.

:roll:
Qi Len
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Post by Qi Len »

Of course, is not it considered an act of common courtesy to release what one creates for ZDoom around here?
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Graf Zahl
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Post by Graf Zahl »

Psycho Siggi wrote:Didn't Graf make his own little decompiler for ZDoom based off a Hexen ACS decompiler?
I remember reading something along those lines somewhere... :?

Indeed I did. The problem is, that enhanced ACS is not easy to decompile and it's only sufficient to get a raw template of the original script. The whole thing is not stable enough for public release and probably never will.

For simple scripts it may be enough but for example, RTC-3057's I can't compile again because some hud messages get screwed. But at least I have the source to look at. I managed to get 90% of Cold As Hell to a working state but there's a few things I didn't manage to get working.
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Cutmanmike
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Post by Cutmanmike »

Qi Len wrote:You seem to be missing something. There is a decompiler for Hexen ACS, indeed, it is included with each copy of Doom Builder. From the sounds of it Graf Zahl has created a similar decompiler for ZDoom ACS. Which, I would like to point out to you, in a small twist of irony, has not been released to us, either in source form or otherwise.
Isn't Hexen and ZDoom ACS the same, just with different functions?

Anyway if Graf released this magical tool then my point would still stand, as pretty much anyone would be able to decompile spork's and anyone else's scripts if they wanted. Again you're trying anything just to try and get one over on us for whatever stupid reason you have because spork, even AFTER seeing Graf had to "bust out his decompiler" has not said himself that he doesn't want Graf to decompile his scripts.

Infact I would love it if Graf released that thing (if it's stable) because I could revive a few of my wads.
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Graf Zahl
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Post by Graf Zahl »

I wouldn't mind giving the decompiler to anyone if they were asking. But it'd come with a clear warning that it isn't stable code and the output not meant for recompilation. The only reason I haven't released it is because it's not stable, not because I don't want to.
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Cutmanmike
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Post by Cutmanmike »

Eek, then i'll stick without my lost wads. Especially the one since it's massive.
Qi Len
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Post by Qi Len »

Anyway if Graf released this magical tool then my point would still stand, as pretty much anyone would be able to decompile spork's and anyone else's scripts if they wanted. Again you're trying anything just to try and get one over on us for whatever stupid reason you have because spork, even AFTER seeing Graf had to "bust out his decompiler" has not said himself that he doesn't want Graf to decompile his scripts.
But as he has not, then your point does not stand, and further serves to make Graf Zahl look like a hypocrite as he is in the demanding, but not giving, sort of mindset.
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Graf Zahl
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Post by Graf Zahl »

You can try if you want. Maybe you are lucky. But if you have used hudmessages you will have to fix them manually.
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