Even if "the moderation team is mostly trans people so they must be biased" is what PB meant, that's still...look, it's nearly impossible for humans to not be biased in general but the solution to this is not to purge all the trans people from the moderation team.cyber_cool wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:13 pmPB expressed a valid concern, which shouldn't be repeated in the future. It's not about trans people being here at all, it's about staff members mostly consisting of trans people, which is, you know, quite unusual and raises some questions. They are called "minority" for a reason.dawnbreez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:48 pm So this got me curious, and I went to actually look at PB's post, and...yeah, this is exactly the kinda shit I was worried about. Framing the situation as "If this wasn't an 'inclusive space', this wouldn't have happened" is exactly the thing I'm worried about--because it takes Marisa's individual actions, and spins it up into "This is because we let trans people be here at all" instead of, y'know, an individual doing shit she really shouldn't have.
I am not putting all the blame on the former mod team for handling the situtaion, shit happens. But it's like holding an international sports event and have all judges being from the same country that also participates. It's impossible for them not to be biased. Same thing happened here.
You know, I find this hard to agree with, because the whole point of PBs post was that the actual crimes were getting ignored for quite some time BECAUSE Marisa's accusers were getting, in their turn, accused of bigotry and trying to attack her gender identity, while they were getting at an actual act of sexual harassment.dawnbreez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:48 pm This is not "holding people accountable", despite what Pillowblaster claimed it was. It's the opposite of holding people accountable. It's ignoring the actual, real, Very Fucking Bad crimes of one person--because they got in an accusation first, and because the accusation was against someone whose presence makes this an Inclusive Space.
It will sound stupid to most people, but let me say that: don't get offended. You may completely disagree with the post in question, but it's far from a direct attack on somebody or a group of people. It's just talking about state of things as they are. It's harshly worded, but you can't be all polite and tolerant all the time. If you wanna make your point, you will not write "sorry for accusing you of this, sorry for implying that you did something wrong, I have nothing against this group of people" a thousand times. You will either get straight to the point or don't write anything at all.Graf Zahl wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:16 pm That's completely irrelevant. Whatever he was trying to say (yes, I freely admit that I had difficulties getting to the actual point of that diatribe) was presented in a manner that at least some people considered extremely offensive. The post made it very hard to get to the essence but made it very easy to piss people off. It's the presentation that matters here, not the presumed content.
Also--you bring up past accusations of sexual harassment. And if there was sexual harassment in the past, I would like to hear about it, so I may form a more complete picture of what happened. What I suspect, based on the conversation so far, is that you don't have any proof, just "she's trans and the moderators were trans, so they must be hiding something".
More importantly: You'll notice we're still focusing on what Marisa did. The conversation keeps sliding away from the thing that came up in the logs Marisa posted--the part where the accuser was distributing CSAM. If the accountability is what you care about, the accuser should be just as big a deal as Marisa--if not more important, because, even if we assume the accuser only got nudes from one twelve-year-old, they're still doing something far worse than what Marisa did. If this was about accountability we would have already settled most of this, because banning both of them would have been the obvious course of action, given the assumption that the logs Marisa provided were true. But, instead, we're talking about how important it is that the trans members of the moderation team be blamed for not banning Marisa fast enough, and that we should reduce the number of trans people on the moderation team because they're obviously biased, and not a single word is spared for the person who apparently had been grooming 12-year-olds in between making accusations of grooming...because this isn't about accountability at all, is it?
